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#1
Jul 24 2016 05:35pm
Body slam seems to do way more dps than anything else.

Is snorlax without lick and bodyslam pretty much worthless?
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#2
Jul 24 2016 05:56pm
Going back to your last thread about Snorlax from a pure numbers point of view - Overall against every pokemon type a Snorlax with the moveset of Zen Headbutt and Earthquake is the best.


I encourage you to look through the calculations of how all of this was determined as well as how different moves were 'rated'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4skafz/best_attackers_and_defenders_analysis/?st=iqziklik&sh=1bb89bf1

This accounts for going against all Types. If your looking for specific Types, then there will be cases where Lick and Bodyslam are superior.
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#3
Jul 24 2016 05:59pm
Beauty contest
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#4
Jul 24 2016 06:02pm
Quote (drwhoool @ Jul 24 2016 04:56pm)
Going back to your last thread about Snorlax from a pure numbers point of view - Overall against every pokemon type a Snorlax with the moveset of Zen Headbutt and Earthquake is the best.


I encourage you to look through the calculations of how all of this was determined as well as how different moves were 'rated'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4skafz/best_attackers_and_defenders_analysis/?st=iqziklik&sh=1bb89bf1

This accounts for going against all Types. If your looking for specific Types, then there will be cases where Lick and Bodyslam are superior.


Again, incorrect according to here:

http://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/pokemon/143

You're giving me input based on pure damage per attack, not damage per second.

Here's a quote from a reddit response in what you've linked me:

"Because it's not ranked by DPS. It's ranked by Damage without an element of time.
OP said he will update the list when he gets more info about how fast attacks are."

This post was edited by Canadian_Man on Jul 24 2016 06:05pm
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#5
Jul 24 2016 06:22pm
Yes you are correct on the attack speed portion.

I have not seen any updated tables (and havnt bothered to do them).

Looking at the gamepress info more closely, with a dodge window of .2 seconds (that alone may be worth it.) you are probably correct.
Also STAB on Snorlax - Its unclear if that is factored into gamepress's numbers.

The attack speed on Lick (.5) will build special faster as well. The biggest downside I see if that Lick is not effective VS Norm, which probably isnt that big of a deal in the long run.
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#6
Jul 24 2016 07:21pm
Heres a little update - The second table is incomplete I think.

So basicly Top 5 Pokemon (not counting EPICS) and moveset:

Code
Rank No. Name Eff. Fast Spacial DPS Eff.HP Damage Output
4 75 Snorlax 100% Lick Body Slam 16.40 317 324
5 68 Vaporeon 100% Water Gun Aqua Tail 16.61 242 251
10 79 Dragonite 100% Dragon Breath Dragon Claw 18.52 211 244
12 33 Slowbro 100% Water Gun Water Pulse 16.09 207 208
16 66 Lapras 100% Frost Breath Blizzard 12.07 271 205



https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4teoe2/best_move_sets_and_matchups_v2/?sort=new&st=ir1cd2i0&sh=93915a62

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/4tot4l/top_dps_damage_pokemon/?st=ir1cbpjx&sh=7696f9dc

Code
"Eff." Is how strong that move set is for that particular Pokemon. If it's 100% it means it's the strongest moveset they can get.


Rank No. Name Eff. Fast Spacial DPS Eff.HP Damage Output
1 80 Mewtwo 100% Psycho Cut Psychic 31.52 235 463
2 80 Mewtwo 100% Psycho Cut Shadow Ball 31.52 235 463
3 80 Mewtwo 100% Psycho Cut Hyper Beam 31.52 235 463
4 75 Snorlax 100% Lick Body Slam 16.40 317 324
5 68 Vaporeon 100% Water Gun Aqua Tail 16.61 242 251
6 75 Snorlax 77% Lick Hyper Beam 12.61 317 249
7 75 Snorlax 77% Lick Earthquake 12.61 317 249
10 79 Dragonite 100% Dragon Breath Dragon Claw 18.52 211 244
8 68 Vaporeon 98% Water Gun Water Pulse 16.25 242 246
9 68 Vaporeon 98% Water Gun Hydro Pump 16.25 242 246
11 75 Snorlax 65% Zen Headbutt Body Slam 10.61 317 210
12 33 Slowbro 100% Water Gun Water Pulse 16.09 207 208
13 33 Slowbro 100% Water Gun Psychic 16.09 207 208
14 33 Slowbro 100% Water Gun Ice Beam 16.09 207 208
15 81 Mew 100% Pound Psychic 13.69 240 206
16 66 Lapras 100% Frost Breath Blizzard 12.07 271 205
17 66 Lapras 99% Frost Breath Dragon Pulse 11.96 271 203
18 66 Lapras 99% Frost Breath Ice Beam 11.96 271 203
19 3 Blastoise 100% Water Gun Flash Cannon 16.25 192 195
20 3 Blastoise 100% Water Gun Ice Beam 16.25 192 195
21 3 Blastoise 100% Water Gun Hydro Pump 16.25 192 195
22 76 Articuno 100% Frost Breath Blizzard 12.80 236 189
23 76 Articuno 99% Frost Breath Ice Beam 12.68 236 187
24 76 Articuno 99% Frost Breath Icy Wind 12.68 236 187
25 79 Dragonite 76% Dragon Breath Dragon Pulse 14.00 211 184
26 81 Mew 89% Pound Hurricane 12.18 240 183
27 31 Golem 100% Mud Shot Stone Edge 16.73 175 183
28 31 Golem 100% Mud Shot Ancient Power 16.73 175 183
29 31 Golem 100% Mud Shot Earthquake 16.73 175 183
30 75 Snorlax 56% Zen Headbutt Hyper Beam 9.21 317 182
31 80 Mewtwo 38% Confusion Psychic 12.05 235 177
32 75 Snorlax 54% Zen Headbutt Earthquake 8.89 317 176
33 79 Dragonite 71% Dragon Breath Hyper Beam 13.10 211 173
34 81 Mew 83% Pound Thunder 11.38 240 171
38 81 Mew 83% Pound Earthquake 11.35 240 170
39 81 Mew 83% Pound Dragon Pulse 11.35 240 170
40 81 Mew 83% Pound Moonblast 11.35 240 170
41 81 Mew 83% Pound Fire Blast 11.35 240 170
42 81 Mew 83% Pound Solar Beam 11.35 240 170
43 81 Mew 83% Pound Hyper Beam 11.35 240 170
35 26 Poliwrath 100% Mud Shot Hydro Pump 13.67 200 170
36 26 Poliwrath 100% Mud Shot Submission 13.67 200 170
37 26 Poliwrath 100% Mud Shot Ice Punch 13.67 200 170
44 23 Golduck 100% Water Gun Psychic 16.89 157 166
45 23 Golduck 100% Water Gun Hydro Pump 16.89 157 166
46 23 Golduck 100% Water Gun Ice Beam 16.89 157 166
47 38 Muk 100% Poison Jab Gunk Shot 11.86 217 161
48 45 Exeggutor 100% Zen Headbutt Psychic 14.76 174 160
50 1 Venusaur 100% Vine Whip Sludge Bomb 14.40 177 159


This post was edited by drwhoool on Jul 24 2016 07:26pm
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#7
Jul 24 2016 07:41pm
I hope they fix this shit. It'd be nice if the game was more organic. As in, most Pokemon should have the potential to be top-tier. It should come down to strategy (which Pokemon with which movesets you have in your team of 6).

I hate needing to sift through these numbers that are construed just on the whim of the programmers who made the game.
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#8
Jul 24 2016 08:03pm
Other question would be: When defending, does the AI utilize the full attack speed. If it doesn't, then I'm guessing slower attack speed stuff is possibly better.
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#9
Jul 24 2016 08:12pm
Quote
Things that could still be wrong:
How the defender attacks. I've assumed a 0.5 second pause between attacks, and generating 100 energy every 4 fast attacks. There is some information in the comments how the defender attacks, but i don't know how to interpret it. There is also an "energy gain per hp loss" which could explain why defenders are able to use their special moves more.
Damage formula is based off existing pokemon formula. We have all the attack and defense stats, i don't see why we wouldn't be using the same formula.
Type modifiers are now 1.25 and 0.8, but i allow 1.25x1.25 as in normal pokemon games: could be incorrect
Crits are x1.5


solid info is still not known -- unless i missed a note about it

A little variety/ changes would be good. Right now its all pretty meh as far as combat goes.

This post was edited by drwhoool on Jul 24 2016 08:12pm
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