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Aug 5 2010 11:38pm
Quote (LoadstoneKnight @ Aug 6 2010 05:11am)
What I wanna know is why they took out vultures and goliaths from multiplayer. Completely fucked up my terran gameplay :mad:


I am assuming because Marines and Medics were over powered in starcraft 1 vs zerg.
The firebat only made it even worst since its basically neglects all zerglings, and even the swarm ability from defilers.
Vultures were rigged because of mines, it was literally impossible for protoss to move out since it was like an extra defense system in a slow push. It got to the point where people who play terran just didn't lose to their vultures mines anymore, they grew out of stupidity and started to kill their own mines when doing a slow push.
Goliaths are like thors, but thors are like semi-hero units. Goliaths in the game were basically anti-air, despite the fact that they also Valkyries. So it was a win-win situation, goliath's for heavy units like Carriers, Dropships, etc..

So in terms, there really was no creativity anymore in starcraft 1 in my opinion, when playing PvT, the Terran always goes mech into Vultures Tanks and Goliaths with slow push Turrets. The only possible way to win was to flank Terran using Arbiters, and the Arbiter at most times is a sacrificial unit to recall in units for flank. That's basically giving up an expensive unit that also takes a long time to build in order to provide a flank that is capable of only recalling units at a certain radius, so it's not every unit in the game which proportionally is most likely only 1/8th of protoss's army because dragoons are fat as hell.

As for PvZ, well the usual Marines and Medics with Firebats into goliaths, valkyries, and science vessels. Pretty much domination unless zerg is able to drop out every expansion on the map.

Basically, Terran doesn't need to do much work to have this super advantage.

As for starcraft 2, they made vultures into hellions, which is like firebats. I only assume they did this because firebats with medics are even more overpowered, so disabling the healing effect works out pretty well in return for mobility.
Thors well.. they just mess everything up since they are fat and 30 scvs can auto-repair and surround the thor.
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Aug 6 2010 12:00am
Quote (RecenT @ Aug 5 2010 10:38pm)
I am assuming because Marines and Medics were over powered in starcraft 1 vs zerg.
The firebat only made it even worst since its basically neglects all zerglings, and even the swarm ability from defilers.
Vultures were rigged because of mines, it was literally impossible for protoss to move out since it was like an extra defense system in a slow push. It got to the point where people who play terran just didn't lose to their vultures mines anymore, they grew out of stupidity and started to kill their own mines when doing a slow push.
Goliaths are like thors, but thors are like semi-hero units. Goliaths in the game were basically anti-air, despite the fact that they also Valkyries. So it was a win-win situation, goliath's for heavy units like Carriers, Dropships, etc..

So in terms, there really was no creativity anymore in starcraft 1 in my opinion, when playing PvT, the Terran always goes mech into Vultures Tanks and Goliaths with slow push Turrets. The only possible way to win was to flank Terran using Arbiters, and the Arbiter at most times is a sacrificial unit to recall in units for flank. That's basically giving up an expensive unit that also takes a long time to build in order to provide a flank that is capable of only recalling units at a certain radius, so it's not every unit in the game which proportionally is most likely only 1/8th of protoss's army because dragoons are fat as hell.

As for PvZ, well the usual Marines and Medics with Firebats into goliaths, valkyries, and science vessels. Pretty much domination unless zerg is able to drop out every expansion on the map.

Basically, Terran doesn't need to do much work to have this super advantage.

As for starcraft 2, they made vultures into hellions, which is like firebats. I only assume they did this because firebats with medics are even more overpowered, so disabling the healing effect works out pretty well in return for mobility.
Thors well.. they just mess everything up since they are fat and 30 scvs can auto-repair and surround the thor.


Well I'm mainly annoyed at the lack of goliaths. I'm not sure how they compare to thors, but goliaths were much cheaper and faster so they seemed a more useful unit. It seems like as a terran you have to build air units to get decent mobile anti-air, which then get raped by the dozens of hydras, etc. that other races can churn out. You can hold down a base like nothing else, but as soon as you move you're going to get fucked by air units.
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Aug 6 2010 12:19am
Quote (LoadstoneKnight @ Aug 6 2010 06:00am)
Well I'm mainly annoyed at the lack of goliaths. I'm not sure how they compare to thors, but goliaths were much cheaper and faster so they seemed a more useful unit. It seems like as a terran you have to build air units to get decent mobile anti-air, which then get raped by the dozens of hydras, etc. that other races can churn out. You can hold down a base like nothing else, but as soon as you move you're going to get fucked by air units.


No one uses air units anymore for PvZ. Thor alone pretty much can take out 6 mutas, and the scvs in there just makes it unbearable. Marines alone are crazy overpowered. It's basically a base trade, and the be honest, trading bases with Terran is most likely a guaranteed loss for Protoss and Zerg.

I believe vikings have longer range than hydralisks, so they can outrange broodlords easily. Plus, when doing a slow push, it comes to the point where eventually the zerg player has to engage in battle, so he will be the one initiating the fight. Your tanks should be set up and the broodlords that come in would be easily taken out since you should be prepared.

I don't play either Terran or Zerg so I do not know much about it, but considering from the videos I've seen, it seems fairly true.

E: Most likely the zerg player will never ever do a base trade, because the way to gain advantage playing as zerg is to overcome the Terran's army, then reinvest your economy into getting that 200/200 population again. When the Terran player loses its army, it's at such a distinct disadvantage since Zergs greatest strength is fast reproduction, insanely fast. The same applies for Protoss vs Terran.

The Terran player is just more powerful when it comes to cost for cost army. The only way to win is having that advantage that protoss and zerg have where Terran is just brute power.

This post was edited by RecenT on Aug 6 2010 12:22am
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Aug 6 2010 12:30am
Quote (RecenT @ Aug 5 2010 11:19pm)
No one uses air units anymore for PvZ. Thor alone pretty much can take out 6 mutas, and the scvs in there just makes it unbearable. Marines alone are crazy overpowered. It's basically a base trade, and the be honest, trading bases with Terran is most likely a guaranteed loss for Protoss and Zerg.

I believe vikings have longer range than hydralisks, so they can outrange broodlords easily. Plus, when doing a slow push, it comes to the point where eventually the zerg player has to engage in battle, so he will be the one initiating the fight. Your tanks should be set up and the broodlords that come in would be easily taken out since you should be prepared.

I don't play either Terran or Zerg so I do not know much about it, but considering from the videos I've seen, it seems fairly true.

E: Most likely the zerg player will never ever do a base trade, because the way to gain advantage playing as zerg is to overcome the Terran's army, then reinvest your economy into getting that 200/200 population again. When the Terran player loses its army, it's at such a distinct disadvantage since Zergs greatest strength is fast reproduction, insanely fast. The same applies for Protoss vs Terran.

The Terran player is just more powerful when it comes to cost for cost army. The only way to win is having that advantage that protoss and zerg have where Terran is just brute power.


Yeah I'm primarily a protoss player (at least, based on the first game) but I've been playing terran to balance out playing with a friend.

What's your account info? Iso more lessons, plus I only have one person to play with right now so I've only screwed around in campaign and a few co-op comp-stomps. Never liked 1v1's.
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Aug 6 2010 12:34am
Quote (LoadstoneKnight @ Aug 6 2010 06:30am)
Yeah I'm primarily a protoss player (at least, based on the first game) but I've been playing terran to balance out playing with a friend.

What's your account info? Iso more lessons, plus I only have one person to play with right now so I've only screwed around in campaign and a few co-op comp-stomps. Never liked 1v1's.


RecenT 727
I can play but I lag with 14fps and lower because of Sony. So until I get this fan replaced, it'll be a bit hard for me to play.
I'm a big fan of 1v1's. I just got attached to it after seeing the competition.

We can play whatever though.

This post was edited by RecenT on Aug 6 2010 12:34am
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Aug 6 2010 12:43am
Quote (RecenT @ Aug 5 2010 11:34pm)
RecenT 727
I can play but I lag with 14fps and lower because of Sony. So until I get this fan replaced, it'll be a bit hard for me to play.
I'm a big fan of 1v1's. I just got attached to it after seeing the competition.

We can play whatever though.


Added you. Not playing tonight, but I have tomorrow off so I'll be playing tomorrow and over the weekend. Probably not a good idea to count on me for ranked matches quite yet, not if you care about your record.

Question though: if you screw up and lose a whole bunch right off the start, will that hurt you from ranking up later? Like in Halo 3, where losing games on a new account prevents you from ranking up later? Or can you still move up and down the ladders freely, do the records reset periodically? Was wondering how much I'm going to screw myself up if I start playing ranked matches and get raped for a while.
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Aug 6 2010 12:48am
But I should be good if I played like C&C and halo wars? I mean not good but i should understand the basics.
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Aug 6 2010 12:52am
Quote (LoadstoneKnight @ Aug 6 2010 06:43am)
Added you. Not playing tonight, but I have tomorrow off so I'll be playing tomorrow and over the weekend. Probably not a good idea to count on me for ranked matches quite yet, not if you care about your record.

Question though: if you screw up and lose a whole bunch right off the start, will that hurt you from ranking up later? Like in Halo 3, where losing games on a new account prevents you from ranking up later? Or can you still move up and down the ladders freely, do the records reset periodically? Was wondering how much I'm going to screw myself up if I start playing ranked matches and get raped for a while.


I am not sure myself, I haven't played any 1v1 ranked because of the lag that I am receiving. At the moment, there is no guarantee on how the system works, but basically you are awarded with points for each win you get.
Based on your performance, you eventually move ahead in the leagues from lowest to highest: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond.
You can lose a game and still be promoted into a higher league. You can win a game and be demoted into a lower league.

From experience, I believe the chance to promote or demote depends on performance, and the win/loss as a contribution. So probably some point system that determines it.

There is an ELO in the rank system. So you are divided within an amount number of divisions with 100 players in each. Normally you are put in divisions closer to your actual skill I believe, but you will be playing mostly players in your league. You do not change divisions [unless you are promoted onto a different league] so the statement before could be false about being placed in divisions closer to skill.

Your goal is to get as much ELO as you can get, there is no limit, but you do play people near your ELO. So the higher your ELO is, the better you are.

I do not know if there will be a record reset as the game just released. Records have reset previously during Beta phase 1 and 2 from big updates.

You have ladders for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Of course, the customs games right now and in the near future will be insanely crazy, like sick nasty crazy. So I'm aiming for a PC/Note that can handle SC2 at maximum.

E: I did not receive a request.

add my email instead, Tai.said@yahoo.com

There are many things that I dislike about Starcraft 2, majority being the "evolution" of Battle.net 2.0. I would rather stick to Battle.net 1.0 from Starcraft 1.

The facebook crap is ridiculously stupid, the identity thing and code crap is even more stupid. Everything that Blizzard is doing right now is stupid, and honestly it came to the point where it can only improve unless they integrate something like twitter functions.

This post was edited by RecenT on Aug 6 2010 12:59am
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Aug 6 2010 01:05am
Quote (RecenT @ Aug 5 2010 11:52pm)
I am not sure myself, I haven't played any 1v1 ranked because of the lag that I am receiving. At the moment, there is no guarantee on how the system works, but basically you are awarded with points for each win you get.
Based on your performance, you eventually move ahead in the leagues from lowest to highest: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond.
You can lose a game and still be promoted into a higher league. You can win a game and be demoted into a lower league.

From experience, I believe the chance to promote or demote depends on performance, and the win/loss as a contribution. So probably some point system that determines it.

There is an ELO in the rank system. So you are divided within an amount number of divisions with 100 players in each. Normally you are put in divisions closer to your actual skill I believe, but you will be playing mostly players in your league. You do not change divisions [unless you are promoted onto a different league] so the statement before could be false about being placed in divisions closer to skill.

Your goal is to get as much ELO as you can get, there is no limit, but you do play people near your ELO. So the higher your ELO is, the better you are.

I do not know if there will be a record reset as the game just released. Records have reset previously during Beta phase 1 and 2 from big updates.

You have ladders for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. Of course, the customs games right now and in the near future will be insanely crazy, like sick nasty crazy. So I'm aiming for a PC/Note that can handle SC2 at maximum.

E: I did not receive a request.

add my email instead, Tai.said@yahoo.com

There are many things that I dislike about Starcraft 2, majority being the "evolution" of Battle.net 2.0. I would rather stick to Battle.net 1.0 from Starcraft 1.

The facebook crap is ridiculously stupid, the identity thing and code crap is even more stupid. Everything that Blizzard is doing right now is stupid, and honestly it came to the point where it can only improve unless they integrate something like twitter functions.


Shouldn't be too hard, I built my computer about 2 years ago and it defaulted all values except Texture Quality to highest setting possible (set texture quality at high instead of ultra). You could probably build the exact same computer as I have for about $500-600 today. Haven't had any issues playing so far.

I added you and it told me you were online :blink: Maybe you have to add me too? I'll add your email and see what happens.
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Aug 6 2010 01:06am
Quote (WeakPulse @ Aug 6 2010 06:48am)
But I should be good if I played like C&C and halo wars? I mean not good but i should understand the basics.


I never played C&C, and Halo Wars is lame. I've some friends now that are really good in Halo Wars but suck so bad in Starcraft 2, so yeah.
The basics are basically knowing the hotkeys, able to hotkey, controlling your economy and army. So yeah, you should be set ^^
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