For those that don't know, I forgot to mention it's a FFVIII topic ^^

It's been debated for years, I remembered the subject today and rewatched some videos about it and it's made me want to play the game again

I like to think they are the same person, because I think there is enough proof to atleast allow us to choose what to believe and I think it makes the game much more awesome if it's true.

For those who don't know about the theory here are some videos about it:

NOTE: If you haven't played this game you might not want to see the videos, since some spoilers might pop up



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YggjyBbFfvY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inx1g4uyoKQ

Discuss

This post was edited by zarkadon on Apr 14 2011 07:20am

I just got chills form the watching the video especially the last image!

"Shall we dance?" holy sh*t dejavu!! lol

Good work, definitely convinced me!

No.

Guy who made video #1 has no life AT ALL.

I don't think so at all. I always thought of Ultemicia more as an entity that possesses different people, rather than just one person. It's been a long time since I played VIII but if I remember correctly, both Edea and Rinoa were possessed by her, right? Edea started off the game as "the sorceress", then she later just became "Matron Edea" again after she was released.

Ok about the video:

The part about Rinoa flashing briefly as Ultemicia in that cutscene. Yeah, no shit, she got possessed by her, it's just showing that it happened(they are connected because Ultemecia used Rinoa's body). And so what if they look the same? All japanese animation characters look pretty similar. And the question "Why would she become evil?" is so dumb.. she was POSSESSED, I thought that was common sense. And i'm sure after being possessed there are traces of ultemecia's power left in Rinoa.

About Griever, I don't see anything relevant. It's obviously connected with Squall, it's a giant Lion, and it's symbol is a lion. Squall Leonheart, ultimate skill is Lionheart. I think that is just a theme, he's like a lion because he is a fierce loner. I don't see it as a link between Squall and Ultimecia, just a connection between Squall and Griever. Griever is supposed to be the most powerful GF right(I think she says that in the last battle?), maybe Squall just happens to be some human incarnation of it or something. I don't see why that points to any connection between Rinoa being Edea just because she is able to summon it.

Ok next about the image of the dialogue when squall is thinking he'll be Rinoa's Knight no matter what. Remember when Edea was the sorceress, Seifer was her Knight, right? Now that Rinoa is the sorceress he wants to be her knight. So what if there is always a Knight there, Since Ultimecia was using someone elses body those people are still going to be useful.

I hate conspiracy theory crap. If Square already denied it, then it isn't true. Yes, story lines get complicated when time traveling, time "compression", and weird sorceresses are involved. But I think people are thinking too hard about nothing.

TL;DR version: See my post.

I have searched for proof that Square denies this theory and found nothing. All I found were anonymous internet users saying "Square has denied this", with no proof nor links to official information about this subject... in fact finalfantasy.wikia.com says Square never said anything about the subject, and has tons of information that that try to both proove and dsiproove the theory (but I've read very little about them, I don't have the guts to read it, the amount of things that have been written is crazy). If you ever come across official information regarding this theory, please let me know

In fact, I think those in charge of the FFVIII project might never thought about the possibilty of Ultimecia being Rinoa until someone came up with this theory years after the game's release, they liked it (looking at most FF storylines you can tell they like conspiracies) and decided to "confirm" it (or atleast give credit to it) in Dissidia.

I agree the fact Rinoa and Ultimecia look alike is a very weak point, it's meaningless to me... but the angel wings and the visions Squall has during time compression, were he can see past, present and future mixing up I find a lot more interesting. And about Squall and Griever, this theory is based on an interpretation completely opposite to yours... as a witch, Rinoa ages very slowly and all her firends begin to die; Squall realizes he won't be able to stand by Rinoa for much longer and reincarnates as the GF Griever so that he can always be by Rino's side. Rinoa would be so attached to this GF, she would almost completely loose her memory and would be unable to understand the sorrow she feels (because of Squall's death), but has the feeling she was happy in the past and decides to take possesion of a witch from that time to try to be happy again. I remember there being a time loop paradox that would explain this and why Edea decided to create the SEEDs on ff wikia, might look for it but it's probably too long to post here

^ It's probably just hard to find the official proof because it's such an "out there" topic. If every video says that square has already dispelled the rumors, then why should we doubt them?



All this is just speculation, none of it is ever mentioned in the game. People are just making stuff up, that's how all conspiracy theories are started, when there are no facts.

It's like people forget the fact that Ultimecia has possessed Rinoa.. So it's common sense that during that cutscene you can briefly see Rinoa and Ultimecia intertwined.(In fact, that only shows up in the CS for like under a second, it's hardly noticeable without pausing it if I remember) Ultimecia was inside Rinoa's body!! What is so hard to understand about that for most people?

And just because Ultimecia can summon griever proves nothing in my opinion. The game says that it is believed to be the most powerful GF. So why wouldn't it make sense for the last boss, the most powerful sorceress, to be able to summon the most powerful GF? These theories are just pulling stuff out of their asses.

EDIT: and yes there is a time loop paradox, that actually happened in the game remember? That just isn't some made up theory. At the end of the game Ultimecia appears at the orphanage with all the children there. And Edea knew that it was some terribly powerful sorceress. Then she took her powers. She obviously knew what she was going to become, thus SEED. Like I said, time traveling stories can become complex, because time is something that is hard to make sense of when the laws of it are being broken.

This post was edited by Lublar on Apr 15 2011 09:08am

Well I'm always skeptic about unofficial information, even if it's widespread. Since this is a D2 site I'll give a D2 example, during the last ladder season everybody was saying Blizzard would make ladder seasons last 6 months, which they never officially said, and in fact ended up making a poll to decide when the reset should be, giving the players the option to extend the ladder to 9 months or 1 year. I don't understand why Square would give Ultimecia Rinoa's weapons in Dissidia or make her say "shall we dance", if they had already denied Rinoa being Ultimecia, since that would only create more rumors. I personally think it's plausible that they are the same person, and I think Square does too, and they are leaving it to the fans to decide upon it.

^

Lol, you're skeptic about unofficial information huh? Yet you believe all this made up stuff that has ZERO proof beyond just speculation. And SE is very aware about what people are saying about their games, they are smart. Of course they'd put something like that in Dissidia, they are promoting their brand. If it's a theme that a lot of people are aware of, of course they are going to play on it a little bit, they'd be stupid not to.

And Rinoa never said "shall we dance" to Squall in the ballroom scene, so that phrase doesn't carry as much weight as it could. Shall we dance, or something like "lets dance" is always used in cheesy fight scenes, Square was smart to use that choice of words because they know what some people think of Ultimecia. And also, I've never played Dissidia, but I watched quite a few videos of Ultimecia on youtube, and she isn't using/wearing Rinoa's weapons in any of those videos. If you watch the actual video, you can tell that those lines are taken out of context anyways, especially the promise one: