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#31
Jun 21 2009 06:31pm
Quote (Mastas @ Sun, Jun 21 2009, 03:41pm)
kotl is the best farmer from level 1 till the end of the game. gg close.


But is he the most effective. O_o
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#32
Jun 22 2009 08:41am
broodmother
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#33
Jun 22 2009 11:00am
Quote (Scimish @ Sun, 21 Jun 2009, 23:53)
Drow is easy to farm with, and if you can't farm with you, you fail @ life.


Ofc i can farm with her, but saying she is anywhere near the top is retarded. The animation is below average and pre lvl 6 attack speed is fairly slow, even for lasthitting porpuses. She is reliant on orbwalking to be able to control a lane, which delays her farm and even then she is quite easy to keep under pressure...

Quote (Scimish @ Mon, 22 Jun 2009, 02:31)
But is he the most effective. O_o


absolutly not, and i already stated why t.t

This post was edited by Pascal3000 on Jun 22 2009 11:00am
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#34
Jun 22 2009 06:43pm
Quote (Pascal3000 @ Sun, Jun 21 2009, 05:51am)
no, yes, yes




absolutly not. He asked "most effective to farm with", which DarkSeer isnt at all. He can farm well, but farming with darkseer is not effective...



Definitly one of the top ones. Can farm well, can use his farm well. Even though hes melee and fairly easy to harras before he finishes his first RoH, with a good supporter his farm is great...



Wastng AoE spells on farming with leshrac early on is shit, invoker needs to be high level and shouldnt waste them either, jugg can just lasthit. Complete shitpost



Again, all of these farm well, but still arent effective to farm with...

Enigma should just rush dagger and then keep ganking,
DS and Pit will be overpushing the lane and wasting gold if they focus on farming
Chen should be ganking 24/7




Storm is pretty decent. Good aoe, fairly good gold usage, even though he needs too much farm to start being effective imo



obviously most DPS heros can lasthit well, but magina has next to no lane control, so hes not a good farmer...



ROFL absolutly not. Any KotL focusing on farming deserves to be stoned... its a fucking SUPPORT hero, and by spamming illuminate, youre not supporting, youre making it HARDER for an actual carry. OH GREAT Kotl has 5000 gold and your Naix has 2000 less than he would normally have. YAY for KotL carry... oh wait, gold on him is fucking worthless....

Even worse than DS and Pit to farm with, DONT, EVER, DO, IT!!!



No actual farming skill, but great animation imo (maybe its just the training, but i love his lasthitting), and very gold effective (armlet, treads own already, with a deso you can take any stacked hero)


Ok:
Strong Junglers:
Axe, Syllabear, Enigma, Chen

Strong Farming ABILITY:
Axe, Nevermore, Pugna, KotL, Kunkka, DarkSeer, Pitlord

Strong Farming Usage:
Axe, Naix, Nevermore, Kunkka, most DPS Agilities



Both Strong without Lane Control:
Mortred, Sniper, Rikimaru, (Bloodseeker)

Both Strong with Lane Control:
(Axe), Naix, Nevermore, Kunkka


ok first off it says effective farmer. we dont' know if they means fastest or what

i put down the potentially fastest farmers. and ts is a great farmer. lightning can harass, and creep at the same time very easily

youa re a douchebag. get off your high chair


i mean seriously. jugg can just last hit? sf can just last hit. every hero can jsut last hit

This post was edited by ricefarmer301 on Jun 22 2009 06:44pm
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#35
Jun 22 2009 07:46pm
Visage is really good, once you get his ult and the birds to help u can get last hits everytime.
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#36
Jun 23 2009 12:13am
Quote (ricefarmer301 @ Tue, 23 Jun 2009, 02:43)

i mean seriously. jugg can just last hit? sf can just last hit. every hero can jsut last hit


Obviously every hero has an attack, so potentially they can lasthit. Still there are fundamental differences between them.
-Base Damage
-Base Attack Time
-Attack Animation Lenght
-Cancelability (word?) of the animation
-Timing of the actual attack in the process of the animation
-Melee / Ranged attack
-Projectile Animation and Speed

All of these determine wether a hero is a good or a bad lasthitter, together with a players ability to control them ofc. You probably wouldnt argue against the fact that Warlock is better at lasthitting than Meepo, even though they can both "jsut last hit"...
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#37
Jun 23 2009 12:40am
. . . . . . . basically BAT have NOTHING to do with lasthitting, attack animation length DOESNT MATTER. Why would you need a "timing of the actual attack in the process of the animation" <- that just sounds funky and have no real relation to anythnig. Everything that matters for a hero's potential to lasthit is_ _ _ _ range, damage, damage point and projectile speed if ranged.
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#38
Jun 23 2009 02:54am
Quote (Grunthor @ Tue, 23 Jun 2009, 08:40)
. . . .  . . . basically BAT have NOTHING to do with lasthitting, attack animation length DOESNT MATTER. Why would you need a "timing of the actual attack in the process of the animation" <- that just sounds funky and have no real relation to anythnig. Everything that matters for a hero's potential to lasthit is_ _ _ _ range, damage, damage point and projectile speed if ranged.


BAT normally only matters when autoattacking, but if theres a close situation with a deny and a lasthit being close together (not spatially, i mean chronologically), a shorter BAT can often lend you an additional lasthit. Obviously youll try to control the flow of the creep deaths so that their timing fits your attack timing, but with a good denying opponent thats not always possible...

And the combination of attack animation lenght and the timing of th actual attack builds the delay of the damage being dealt on from the point you order the attack.

Melee:
Order
Animation
Damage Dealt
End Animation

Ranged
Order
Animation
Projectile Shot / End Animation at the same time
Projectile reaches target
Damage Dealt

I guess that damage dealth point is what you mean with damage point

All of these steps untill the actual damage occurs slow down your "reaction" speed. If your attack is gonna take 0.5 seconds after you order it to actually deal damage, you have to estimate the amount of damage the creep is gonna take in that time and send your attack about 0.6 seconds before it dies. With a longer animation you have to think further ahead, which makes the attack less accurate and weaker to denies.

We also both forgot attack range as an addition to just being melee / ranged, as theres different ranges
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#39
Jun 23 2009 02:56am
Quote (Grunthor @ Tue, Jun 23 2009, 04:40pm)
. . . .  . . . basically BAT have NOTHING to do with lasthitting, attack animation length DOESNT MATTER. Why would you need a "timing of the actual attack in the process of the animation" <- that just sounds funky and have no real relation to anythnig. Everything that matters for a hero's potential to lasthit is_ _ _ _ range, damage, damage point and projectile speed if ranged.


horribly wrong. if your attack animation is slow, it takes more time before you comand your unit to attack when compared to having a fast attack animation. like, drow has a massive long animation after right clicking, but sniper has a very fast attack animation
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#40
Jun 23 2009 04:26am
Let's not forget the fact that if you have any capability what so ever at last hitting you don't have to use nukes to get CS.
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