d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Other Games > Other Games > Starcraft I & II > What Are The Main Diffs Between Sc1 & Sc2
12311Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 30,122
Joined: Feb 15 2006
Gold: 1,507.00
Oct 5 2013 04:20pm
Beyond not being able to select your entire army, and things of mechanical skill requirements...

Why was SC1 considered a master piece vs SC2?
Member
Posts: 8,227
Joined: Aug 27 2005
Gold: 810.00
Oct 5 2013 04:22pm
Because of PLAYGUUUU!!!! :D

Member
Posts: 6,599
Joined: Feb 23 2010
Gold: 1,461.00
Oct 5 2013 04:23pm
the battles/micro were far superior to sc2. fights didn't decide games in 5 seconds and you could usually retreat and regroup, extending the game and having a solid chance to win with good future micro. sc2 is just a huge clash of a big army, with just about no way to retreat and a swift gg. for example, 1 lost battle as toss vs zerg or terran is usually instantly gg.

the fights were also slower paced (therefore longer) with better natural spread cuz of the engine. sc2 is a 1a clusterfuck.
Member
Posts: 15,832
Joined: Nov 25 2008
Gold: 0.00
Oct 5 2013 04:58pm
Quote (Baklap @ Oct 6 2013 08:22am)
Because of PLAYGUUUU!!!! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpuv7VPb2rA


no
Member
Posts: 17,822
Joined: Jul 9 2009
Gold: 0.12
Oct 5 2013 05:18pm
Quote (Ferrite @ Oct 5 2013 07:58pm)
no


sc1 you could group only 1 building per hotkey
could select only 12 units
workers didnt go mine automactly
Member
Posts: 65,046
Joined: Jul 7 2008
Gold: Locked
Oct 5 2013 05:19pm
Part of it can be narrowed down to mechanics. SCBW was a much more micro-intensive game. It featured more multi-area fights because huge groups of units were hard to control (there would often be 2-3 battles going on at different expansions, or multiple drops and such). The unit cap aided in this, as well as in further unit control requirements.

Also, the spellcasters were more diverse and more widely used. Swarm was really good. The arbiter had cool mechanics that could be used in multiple ways. Basically, the spellcasters in SC2 deal damage, and people cry if they do other things (fungal, I'm looking at you). The unique abilities of these spells (and their crowd control effects) allowed for more "epic" moments in games.

Finally, the map design was vastly different. In SC2, every map has a few easily defensible choke points and in HotS changes were made to make it even easier to hold these (win-d'oh mines, ezpz cannon). In SCBW? Rushes much more viable (but still fairly rare, the game was a macro game as well). Maps with multiple areas of attack made it possible for such strats to work well.

There are a few more points that can be made surrounding some of the unit design ideas as well (thors suck, colossi are fucking good, ultras are situationally useful/broods are a win or lose decision), but I'll leave that for a later rant.

I think the biggest thing that we have to remember is historical perspective. Starcraft and SCBW were groundbreakingly good games when they came out. Like, mind-blowing awesome. The unique gameplay opportunities and cool graphics (they were cool) drew a large following initially. Also, DotA didn't exist at the point of SC release. MOBAS weren't a thing. There were significantly fewer good alternative games, and even fewer competitive games at the time (but now e-sports is massive). This meant that if you wanted to be serious about video games, you played SCBW or an FPS.

Since SCBW, the gaming industry has really exploded. More developers, more alternative choices, more epic games with epic graphics and epic mechanics. Games are reaching a larger audience, and an audience that doesn't have the patience or the dedication to get good at a game, so they play "social" games--games where it's common to work WITH friends to succeed, as opposed to playing alone (SC2 is a 1v1 game and you all know it).

So it comes down to a lot of issues. Lame mechanics and unit design, more alternative choices, and a new "casual" gaming population have basically ousted Starcraft. I hope that a small dedicated core of gamers continue to play because it's a fantastic game, and I really hope that one day the world comes back to Starcraft and recognizes how cool RTS games really are.

My biggest (personal) problem with SC2, tbh, is that Blizzard seems to be funneling players towards a single playstyle, as opposed to SCBW where players came up with these cool strategies based on cool mechanics. SC2 took away a lot of the opportunities by dumbing down the spells.
Member
Posts: 11,692
Joined: Feb 15 2009
Gold: 85.02
Oct 5 2013 05:44pm
Mechanical things aside, the biggest difference is probably how much bigger units are compared to the maps. It took much longer for units to make their way up a ramp or through a narrow space and this was made even more complicated by the horrible unit AI (especially units like dragoons and lurkers).

As a result, games were much less likely to come down to a big army vs army fight like it does most of the time in sc2.
Member
Posts: 30,122
Joined: Feb 15 2006
Gold: 1,507.00
Oct 5 2013 09:31pm
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Oct 5 2013 06:19pm)
Part of it can be narrowed down to mechanics.  SCBW was a much more micro-intensive game.  It featured more multi-area fights because huge groups of units were hard to control (there would often be 2-3 battles going on at different expansions, or multiple drops and such).  The unit cap aided in this, as well as in further unit control requirements.

Also, the spellcasters were more diverse and more widely used.  Swarm was really good.  The arbiter had cool mechanics that could be used in multiple ways.  Basically, the spellcasters in SC2 deal damage, and people cry if they do other things (fungal, I'm looking at you).  The unique abilities of these spells (and their crowd control effects) allowed for more "epic" moments in games.

Finally, the map design was vastly different.  In SC2, every map has a few easily defensible choke points and in HotS changes were made to make it even easier to hold these (win-d'oh mines, ezpz cannon).  In SCBW?  Rushes much more viable (but still fairly rare, the game was a macro game as well).  Maps with multiple areas of attack made it possible for such strats to work well. 

There are a few more points that can be made surrounding some of the unit design ideas as well (thors suck, colossi are fucking good, ultras are situationally useful/broods are a win or lose decision), but I'll leave that for a later rant.

I think the biggest thing that we have to remember is historical perspective.  Starcraft and SCBW were groundbreakingly good games when they came out.  Like, mind-blowing awesome.  The unique gameplay opportunities and cool graphics (they were cool) drew a large following initially.  Also, DotA didn't exist at the point of SC release.  MOBAS weren't a thing.  There were significantly fewer good alternative games, and even fewer competitive games at the time (but now e-sports is massive).  This meant that if you wanted to be serious about video games, you played SCBW or an FPS.

Since SCBW, the gaming industry has really exploded.  More developers, more alternative choices, more epic games with epic graphics and epic mechanics.  Games are reaching a larger audience, and an audience that doesn't have the patience or the dedication to get good at a game, so they play "social" games--games where it's common to work WITH friends to succeed, as opposed to playing alone (SC2 is a 1v1 game and you all know it).

So it comes down to a lot of issues.  Lame mechanics and unit design, more alternative choices, and a new "casual" gaming population have basically ousted Starcraft.  I hope that a small dedicated core of gamers continue to play because it's a fantastic game, and I really hope that one day the world comes back to Starcraft and recognizes how cool RTS games really are.

My biggest (personal) problem with SC2, tbh, is that Blizzard seems to be funneling players towards a single playstyle, as opposed to SCBW where players came up with these cool strategies based on cool mechanics.  SC2 took away a lot of the opportunities by dumbing down the spells.


That was a really good read. Makes a lot of sense, and matches up with the points perfection was making.

At this stage in SC2, what can really be done to change or fix things? If Blizzard were to 'dumb down' the game and make SC2 only be able to Select 16 units at a time, or modified things to be more like SC1. I don't think people would accept it very well.

I do agree however that it always seems to just be about a big huge army clash that decides the game it seems.
Member
Posts: 61,030
Joined: May 29 2006
Gold: 25,003.31
Oct 5 2013 09:51pm
Quote (Pk_Dibbun @ Oct 5 2013 10:31pm)
That was a really good read. Makes a lot of sense, and matches up with the points perfection was making.

At this stage in SC2, what can really be done to change or fix things? If Blizzard were to 'dumb down' the game and make SC2 only be able to Select 16 units at a time, or modified things to be more like SC1. I don't think people would accept it very well.

I do agree however that it always seems to just be about a big huge army clash that decides the game it seems.


Having 16 units selected at a time made for crazy micro. and

1a now becomes

1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a etc

took more apm and skill
Member
Posts: 20,928
Joined: Mar 18 2009
Gold: 435,910.13
Oct 5 2013 10:54pm
they fired all the pros and hired a bunch of new uni grads like david kim expecting to make a worthy sequel
Go Back To Starcraft I & II Topic List
12311Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll