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May 22 2013 03:53pm
Hey guys, in late game ZvT is there any downside to massing mutas with ultra (besides the amount of gas it would take)? Upgraded mutas pick off rauders/mines that kite backward pretty quickly and ultras tank the mine shots

Also, having more muta => shutting down drops that are harrassing bases, while ultras are in position to prevent the terran's main army from sniping a 3rd or 4th
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May 22 2013 04:04pm
Ultras in mass are really powerful with other units such as banelings or lings (or if u can afford infestors when u have like 10 ultras)

Because

1- you can't focus fire the ultras if u got lings and banes and if u go mutas u can just sit there and target fire every ultras while kitting a little

If u add mass lings and banes, u have to split and u can't really target fire meaning ur ultras just don't die...

Plus lings counters mass marauders and the banes just destroys every clumped units


e/ ultras, mutas seems too gas heavy...

This post was edited by Nevada on May 22 2013 04:06pm
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May 22 2013 04:53pm
Quote (Nevada @ May 22 2013 05:04pm)
Ultras in mass are really powerful with other units such as banelings or lings (or if u can afford infestors when u have like 10 ultras)

Because

1- you can't focus fire the ultras if u got lings and banes and if u go mutas u can just sit there and target fire every ultras while kitting a little

If u add mass lings and banes, u have to split and u can't really target fire meaning ur ultras just don't die...

Plus lings counters mass marauders and the banes just destroys every clumped units


e/ ultras, mutas seems too gas heavy...




Ah okay thanks :O!
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May 22 2013 06:05pm
~10 mutas are ok lategame, to kill the medvacs. the rest should be ultra ling bane (unless he is playing mech ofc)
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May 24 2013 04:21am
Mutalist
120life
9 (+1.000) (1st bounce)
3 (+0.333) (2nd bounce)
1 (+0.111) (3rd bounce)
Air DPS: 5.90 (+0.66) (1st bounce)
1.97 (+0.22) (2nd bounce)
0.66 (+0.07) (3rd bounce)
Speed 4
100min+100gas*1.25+2/8*100food=250minirals

Corruptor
200life+2armor
Attack Air Attack: 14(+1)
Air DPS: 7.4(+0.5)
Bonus: +6(+1) vs Massive
Bonus DPS: +3.2(+0.5) vs Massive
Speed 2.9531
300miniral costs


Medivac
Speed 2.5 / Speed boost that increases movement speed and acceleration to 4.25 for 8 seconds.
150life+1armor
Heal 9 hp/s
250miniral costs


Marine
45life
Air Attack: 6 (+1)
Air DPS: 7(+1.2


Conclusion:
muta 120life/7marine air dps = 17seconds for 1 marine to shot down 1 muta
Corruptor: 200life / (6-2armor)/ .8608 cooldown marine attack = 43 seconds for 1 marine to shot down 1 corruptor

muta:
150medivac life / (9damage-1armor/ 1.5246 cooldown = 28.6 seconds for 1muta to kill 1medivac
corruptor: 150 / (14-1/Cooldown 1.9 s ) = 21.9seconds for curuptor to kill 1medi

1medi:
9hp heal/sec = 1.21 curruptors damage is overhealed / 1.53 muta is overhealed

Corruptor kill medi even when merine is under medi, and when a-click is used, muta not do that!
Now air-dominance have been reached, and swarmhost can be sent to free-kill any ground units
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May 24 2013 06:43am
so i already give a few comments on how bad muta are!
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=67395078&f=214&o=30

but look this tear3-muta-unit gets complety overruled bye tear1-stuf
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spore_Crawler
Air Attack: 15 (+30 vs Biological)
Air DPS: 17.4 (52.2 vs Biological)
Range 7
125miniral costs

120muta life / 69.6spore dps = 1.72seconds for 1spore to kill 1muta
400spore life / 5.25muta dps vs 1armored = 76seconds for 1muta to kill 1spore

i am bad at math, but i could try,
(120muta life * x number of muta / 69.6spore dps = 400spore life * y number of spores / 5.25 muta dps vs1armor
then add the miniral costs
and you get
1 : 100 minirals needed to make muta not loose the fight!
:drool:

so if this unit is getting powned/countered so hard, why would you even try to make it matter?
even if, its 1:10 vs other races/situations?

--------------

muta build, is building arround failure!
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mutalisk_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)
Quote
Their strength lies in their mobility, picking off stray units, workers, and buildings. Because few units are fast enough to keep up with Mutalisks, they provide indirect map control - if an enemy balls up their forces to take the offensive, Mutalisks can be used to pick off buildings and units within the enemy base, forcing the enemy back to defend.

so he push, and the push would crush your zergling forces, your only options is to try to let the enemy retreat to base to stop your harresment
you are failed to crush the pushing-terran units, couse your spent to many on muta, and only gain 1:10-100
Quote
The proper micromanagement for Mutalisks involves moving into range to attack, retreating during cooldown to avoid retaliation, then moving back into range to attack again when the cooldown has ended. While doing so, Mutalisks should be manually assigned targets rather than attack-moving so that they will focus fire and kill the same unit rather than injure a number of units.

why the heck you need 3*bounce damage then?
so the mechanics of the attack are not adding to the use of it.
Quote
General usage  vs Protoss - Mutalisks can be a viable and effective transition from a Roach-heavy opening. This is largely because of the Protoss' reliance on units made from the Robotics Facility, namely Immortals and Colossi, which can only attack ground units. Because most PvZ Protoss players tech into the Robotics Facility, their only viable anti-air units are Stalkers and Sentries, both of which are relatively fragile and can be focused down by Mutalisks.

so you have roach to kill stalker
is countered bye collosi
and muta is countering collosi?
its fake! couse muta is shooting at stalker, and rouche still gets crushed bye collosi
or
muta is shooting at colosi, stalker is shooting at muta, rouche is waiting or else gets tousted bye colosi, its a 100%vs 30% situation for a few seconds

to me a muta is like a flying zergling, only good vs workers,
and you pay 8times more minirals for it , so workers can not fight back, and you can fight vs zealots/zerglings/marauders/tank/colosi, or anything that can not shoot up and is not supported bye anti-air.

you seen it in the world champion ship, a swarm of muta, getting 1-shotted bye 3widow-mines.
this 7speed is not that beneficial for attacking, only for kiting
zergling:Speed 2.9531 (+1.746) *1.3creep bonus = 4.99zergling speed on creep
its logic that widowmine disaster is lickly to happen!
for the price of muta, you can have 2 army's if you realy wana be all over the place
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May 24 2013 08:47am
Quote (Tommyvv @ May 24 2013 08:43am)
so i already give a few comments on how bad muta are!
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=67395078&f=214&o=30

but look this tear3-muta-unit gets complety overruled bye tear1-stuf
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spore%5FCrawler
Air Attack:  15 (+30 vs Biological)
Air DPS:  17.4 (52.2 vs Biological)
Range 7
125miniral costs

120muta life / 69.6spore dps = 1.72seconds for 1spore to kill 1muta
400spore life / 5.25muta dps vs 1armored = 76seconds for 1muta to kill 1spore

i am bad at math, but i could try,
(120muta life * x number of muta / 69.6spore dps = 400spore life * y number of spores / 5.25 muta dps vs1armor
then add the miniral costs
and you get
1 : 100 minirals needed to make muta not loose the fight!
:drool: 

so if this unit is getting powned/countered so hard, why would you even try to make it matter?
even if, its 1:10 vs other races/situations?

--------------

muta build, is building arround failure!
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Mutalisk%5F(Heart%5Fof%5Fthe%5FSwarm)

so he push, and the push would crush your zergling forces, your only options is to try to let the enemy retreat to base to stop your harresment
you are failed to crush the pushing-terran units, couse your spent to many on muta, and only gain 1:10-100

why the heck you need 3*bounce damage then?
so the mechanics of the attack are not adding to the use of it.

so you have roach to kill stalker
is countered bye collosi
and muta is countering collosi?
its fake! couse muta is shooting at stalker, and rouche still gets crushed bye collosi
or
muta is shooting at colosi, stalker is shooting at muta, rouche is waiting or else gets tousted bye colosi, its a 100%vs 30% situation for a few seconds

to me a muta is like a flying zergling, only good vs workers,
and you pay 8times more minirals for it , so workers can not fight back, and you can fight vs zealots/zerglings/marauders/tank/colosi, or anything that can not shoot up and is not supported bye anti-air.

you seen it in the world champion ship, a swarm of muta, getting 1-shotted bye 3widow-mines.
this 7speed is not that beneficial for attacking, only for kiting
zergling:Speed 2.9531 (+1.746) *1.3creep bonus = 4.99zergling speed on creep
its logic that widowmine disaster is lickly to happen!
for the price of muta, you can have 2 army's if you realy wana be all over the place


........ you suck at the game and your diablo theorycrafting is invalid here, stop writing books
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May 24 2013 09:06am
Quote (Kamachi @ May 24 2013 02:47pm)
........ you suck at the game and your diablo theorycrafting is invalid here, stop writing books


if you had a brain, you give reasons for your posts

if not

posts like this = Agro-kid-rage-release.
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May 24 2013 09:10am
Lol tommy posts
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May 24 2013 08:18pm
Quote (Tommyvv @ 24 May 2013 17:06)
if you had a brain, you give reasons for your posts

if not

posts like this = Agro-kid-rage-release.



well, the reason to have muta instead of corruptor is the speed of muta. you use them to intercept drops, which corruptor can only do if you already have them parked in their path.
so in a straight up fight of maxed armys corruptor are better, but mutas are more versatile
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