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Nov 8 2012 08:43am
Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Nov 8 2012 05:54am)
Want a replay of mine where i shot emps right in the middlle of fourteen infestors and there still remained energy for enough fungals to deal with my army? That was the last time i tried using ghosts against infestors even though i was very confident in my bio plays for my top tier splits n agressivity, but i just changed i switched to mech tvz for a more stable play. With enough siegetanks focus firing infestors won't even get into range. Meching has brought a nice boost to my wlr ratio against my high z friend, it was definitely a good decision. (main conclusion is that the infestor is too fucking fat to be worthwhile emping)


well ... less fungals is a good thing obv.

They're not quite as damaging as storm in low numbers, so a few ghosts would be worthwhile just to reduce the amount by a good chunk



If 2-3 EMPs can reduce fungals in half then it's worthwhile

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Nov 8 2012 08:44am
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Nov 8 2012 09:05am
Quote (eyewuvd2 @ 8 Nov 2012 16:43)
well ... less fungals is a good thing obv.

They're not quite as damaging as storm in low numbers, so a few ghosts would be worthwhile just to reduce the amount by a good chunk



If 2-3 EMPs can reduce fungals in half then it's worthwhile


It may be only me, but i don't like half solutions, if i want to shut down something, i want it to be shut down. So as long as I don't go pure bio it's not worthwhile going ghosts before the superlategame, where nukes can be gamechanging. (There it's quite enough just to produce ghosts off from 1 rax) And I didn't even mention that it can be extremely risky to use ghosts and only rely on them since you can just lose them before you could kill or shut down anything. Wasted supply and resources.
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Nov 8 2012 09:38am
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Nov 8 2012 11:36am
meanwhile taeja and flash actually build ghosts in tvz and bard is right and all of these low master retards are wrong
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Nov 8 2012 11:50am
Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Nov 8 2012 02:54am)
Want a replay of mine where i shot emps right in the middlle of fourteen infestors and there still remained energy for enough fungals to deal with my army? That was the last time i tried using ghosts against infestors even though i was very confident in my bio plays for my top tier splits n agressivity, but i just changed i switched to mech tvz for a more stable play. With enough siegetanks focus firing infestors won't even get into range. Meching has brought a nice boost to my wlr ratio against my high z friend, it was definitely a good decision. (main conclusion is that the infestor is too fucking fat to be worthwhile emping)


Sure. If you've still got the replay I'd love to watch it.

And yes, I AGREE, tanks are another wonderful way to counter infestors (and the primary way to do it, for most games). But ghosts can come as an unsuspected surprise if combined with a marine/tank force. 2-3 good EMPs can literally end a game if the Zerg doesn't expect it.

Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Nov 8 2012 08:05am)
It may be only me, but i don't like half solutions, if i want to shut down something, i want it to be shut down. So as long as I don't go pure bio it's not worthwhile going ghosts before the superlategame, where nukes can be gamechanging. (There it's quite enough just to produce ghosts off from 1 rax) And I didn't even mention that it can  be extremely risky to use ghosts and only rely on them since you can just lose them before you could kill or shut down anything. Wasted supply and resources.


They are a big gamble. Losing a huge chunk of ghosts is a large gas investment lost that could have been put into tanks/upgrades/vikings/banshees. Used in moderation (3-4) they can provide a potentially game-changing play for little risk--but be careful relying on ghosts too much because if Zerg sees them/dodges fungals/ you randomly miss micro you can throw a game. But I suppose that's true of any race's spellcasters, just like the first set of Life vs Flash at MLG where Life threw away the first game by suiciding infestors.

Quote (dwalk1989 @ Nov 8 2012 10:36am)
meanwhile taeja and flash actually build ghosts in tvz and bard is right and all of these low master retards are wrong


Let's not make this a fight, we're all here to learn more and I'm 100% positive that these guys have a LOT they can teach me as well.



Back on the topic of improvement, in a mech TvT when is a good time to start the transition to sky? How many bases/how much gas banked? How many starports should be made?

This post was edited by BardOfXiix on Nov 8 2012 11:52am
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Nov 8 2012 12:23pm
Quote (dwalk1989 @ 8 Nov 2012 19:36)
meanwhile taeja and flash actually build ghosts in tvz and bard is right and all of these low master retards are wrong

I didn't say it would be a completely bad move, to make ghosts, I just said _imo_ it's better to just hold 'em off with tanks, since the ghosts aren't THAT effective against infestors, as they are against like high templars.
Quote (BardOfXiix @ 8 Nov 2012 19:50)
Sure.  If you've still got the replay I'd love to watch it.

And yes, I AGREE, tanks are another wonderful way to counter infestors (and the primary way to do it, for most games).  But ghosts can come as an unsuspected surprise if combined with a marine/tank force.  2-3 good EMPs can literally end a game if the Zerg doesn't expect it.



They are a big gamble.  Losing a huge chunk of ghosts is a large gas investment lost that could have been put into tanks/upgrades/vikings/banshees.  Used in moderation (3-4) they can provide a potentially game-changing play for little risk--but be careful relying on ghosts too much because if Zerg sees them/dodges fungals/ you randomly miss micro you can throw a game.  But I suppose that's true of any race's spellcasters, just like the first set of Life vs Flash at MLG where Life threw away the first game by suiciding infestors.



Let's not make this a fight, we're all here to learn more and I'm 100% positive that these guys have a LOT they can teach me as well.



Back on the topic of improvement, in a mech TvT when is a good time to start the transition to sky?  How many bases/how much gas banked?  How many starports should be made?


I usually play with the goal of losing the least units I can, and ghosts aren't the safest way for that as I said, you can make it work, but it isn't necessary(more like a waste) if you are not going pure bio.
Quote (BardOfXiix @ 8 Nov 2012 19:50)
Sure.  If you've still got the replay I'd love to watch it.

And yes, I AGREE, tanks are another wonderful way to counter infestors (and the primary way to do it, for most games).  But ghosts can come as an unsuspected surprise if combined with a marine/tank force.  2-3 good EMPs can literally end a game if the Zerg doesn't expect it.



They are a big gamble.  Losing a huge chunk of ghosts is a large gas investment lost that could have been put into tanks/upgrades/vikings/banshees.  Used in moderation (3-4) they can provide a potentially game-changing play for little risk--but be careful relying on ghosts too much because if Zerg sees them/dodges fungals/ you randomly miss micro you can throw a game.  But I suppose that's true of any race's spellcasters, just like the first set of Life vs Flash at MLG where Life threw away the first game by suiciding infestors.



Let's not make this a fight, we're all here to learn more and I'm 100% positive that these guys have a LOT they can teach me as well.



Back on the topic of improvement, in a mech TvT when is a good time to start the transition to sky?  How many bases/how much gas banked?  How many starports should be made?


truth
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Nov 8 2012 01:29pm
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Nov 8 2012 01:50pm)
Sure.  If you've still got the replay I'd love to watch it.

And yes, I AGREE, tanks are another wonderful way to counter infestors (and the primary way to do it, for most games).  But ghosts can come as an unsuspected surprise if combined with a marine/tank force.  2-3 good EMPs can literally end a game if the Zerg doesn't expect it.



They are a big gamble.  Losing a huge chunk of ghosts is a large gas investment lost that could have been put into tanks/upgrades/vikings/banshees.  Used in moderation (3-4) they can provide a potentially game-changing play for little risk--but be careful relying on ghosts too much because if Zerg sees them/dodges fungals/ you randomly miss micro you can throw a game.  But I suppose that's true of any race's spellcasters, just like the first set of Life vs Flash at MLG where Life threw away the first game by suiciding infestors.



Let's not make this a fight, we're all here to learn more and I'm 100% positive that these guys have a LOT they can teach me as well.



Back on the topic of improvement, in a mech TvT when is a good time to start the transition to sky?  How many bases/how much gas banked?  How many starports should be made?


there isn't ever a set time to transition ... basically it comes down to whether or not you want to tank/viking or hellion/tank push and what your opponent is doing

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Nov 8 2012 01:34pm
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Nov 9 2012 12:59am
We got a bit off topic there guys :[ let's stop responding to death_killax, SHALL WE?


I think this replay is proof that my reactionary scouting is muuuuch better. I didn't even spot the templar archives and I knew to get ghosts solely because of the twilight council and charge research. Might seem "derp" to you guys, but it's an improvement!

http://drop.sc/273575

What I need to improve on:
Reactive transitioning - gotten better
Expansions past 3rd base - gotten better
Doing more with my units (moving around more) - still needs work
Scouting - still needs work
Timings - still need work

This post was edited by Floooopy on Nov 9 2012 01:00am
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Nov 9 2012 01:29am
http://drop.sc/273576
Is there anything I could have done better this game besides dodging storms?? Seems like storms are the sole reason why he done... I outplayed him in every other way. Most of the time I emp'd correctly, but just a few storms were game changing. No sense.
/e I am now aware that I overmade vikings, allowing him to get back into the game. FML.
UGH I had so many great chances to attack or atleast poke... and I had no clue... I just stayed back the entire time so I could "get more ahead" and it fucked me over in the end -_- inexperience killed me. What a good game though.
Note to self: if you have 17 vikings and he has 0 colossi in sight, LAND THEM.

This post was edited by Floooopy on Nov 9 2012 01:44am
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Nov 9 2012 04:29am
Quote (Floooopy @ Nov 8 2012 11:59pm)
We got a bit off topic there guys :[ let's stop responding to death_killax, SHALL WE?


I think this replay is proof that my reactionary scouting is muuuuch better. I didn't even spot the templar archives and I knew to get ghosts solely because of the twilight council and charge research. Might seem "derp" to you guys, but it's an improvement!

http://drop.sc/273575

What I need to improve on:
Reactive transitioning - gotten better
Expansions past 3rd base - gotten better
Doing more with my units (moving around more) - still needs work
Scouting - still needs work
Timings - still need work


Quote (Floooopy @ Nov 9 2012 12:29am)
http://drop.sc/273576
Is there anything I could have done better this game besides dodging storms?? Seems like storms are the sole reason why he done... I outplayed him in every other way. Most of the time I emp'd correctly, but just a few storms were game changing. No sense.
/e I am now aware that I overmade vikings, allowing him to get back into the game. FML.
UGH I had so many great chances to attack or atleast poke... and I had no clue... I just stayed back the entire time so I could "get more ahead" and it fucked me over in the end -_- inexperience killed me. What a good game though.
Note to self: if you have 17 vikings and he has 0 colossi in sight, LAND THEM.


Both of these will be watched in the near future and I'll have tl;dr textwalls for each, just like the 4 replays you posted in the other thread.
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