WM > BW Mines

play BW

come back

apologize

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ICC B+ 1;1 A 2;2
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This post was edited by 820 on Feb 23 2013 10:58pm

how is this substantially different from cloaked ghost play? If you get your observer sniped you get demolished... why should widow-mines be an exception? This is my point


There was no "reminiscing", I simply pointed out that if protoss were able to handle mines in BW, I'm sure with all your new tools you'll find it no more difficult dealing with the WM than they did with spider mines




feel free to justify why you think WM are superior to spider mines, lol ?

The same principles apply, you lead with a few zealots, and then spread and attack in. Except in SC2 you don't get 3 mines and a vulture for 75 minerals, lol

WM drops? maybe the only way I think WMs are really superior

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Feb 23 2013 11:01pm

Because ghosts don't 1 hit zealot/stalker/oracle/ht/dt/observer AND deal splash damage?
And you should play 820 in a game of BW or SC2, your choice of map, settings with you playing toss him playing terran.
You can theorycraft all you want in the game vs him

You have to upgrade mines in BW.

WM are better because it lets Terran open gas without any possible punishment. Terran gas openings are undetectable and can be anything yet can't be punished which makes them far better than BWM ( BW Mines ). They're also incredibly more versatile and can be used in more than just PvT ( they were used rarely in TvT and even more scarce in TvZ ), now though, WM are combined with bio in TvZ which is nearly unstoppable.

Repositioning the WM's is incredibly good and hasn't been utilized enough, but will in the future. Right now they're used similarly to how the BWM's were, which is a far more stationary role. Once upgraded, however, they can be used as an incredibly mobile tool of your army, running into / flanking in battles to burrow near your opponents army; it's already seen quite often in TvZ but can be utilized as well in TvP.

I could list more things but the above is sufficient enough to validate that WM's > BWM's. I will just briefly mention that you can drop the WM's, they don't actually die once detonated, and can attack air.

This post was edited by 820 on Feb 23 2013 11:12pm

instead of dick-riding 820, how about you come up with a stand-up argument? The fact that he can beat me in a game of starcraft doesnt validate his opinion. Look at idra, as an example of a QQ programer: if he had his way, overlords would move at light speed with lasers and stalkers would be able to blink only 2 yards with a 10 minute cooldown

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Feb 23 2013 11:16pm

if you scout on 9 you'll get to see the gas ... and if he gasses you can 2gate and be 100% safe.. The current metagame is to 1gate and 1rax FE .. but it doesn't need to stay like this. Terran gas openings are either 2rax, hellions, WM or banshee ... all of which can be handled with standard play ....

The fact that they can be used in all matchups doesnt really add to the OP argument .......... zealots are useful in 3 matchups too >.>

The repositioning is a pretty big deal .. I think in mineral lines they're pretty strong. mines in BW didnt detonate on hovering units ... so workers were safe for this. Perhaps removing the fast-burrow upgrade would be fine .. but right now I haven't seen any spectacularly overpowered uses .. other than armies moving around and getting smashed by scattered mines on ramps and stuff. But again, is this different than burrowed banelings on a moving army? I don't think so really.

Against Z they're pretty strong .. much stronger than tanks in many ways , esp with a low gas cost ... but 2 supply is a pretty bloated cost for 200 supply army, and I still think their damage can be mitigated with some better play






starting to wall-of-text here a bit ... but I feel inclined to point out the sheer number of mines in BW compared to the relatively few in hots is a significant difference

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Feb 23 2013 11:19pm

Okay yeah I wasn't making any points regarding this issue before 820 came along
I feel so bad for you seriously

We're not comparing BW Zealots to SC2 Zealots and even if we were, they were used in all 3 matchups so that wouldn't be a point of contention in a 'which one is better' argument. In a conversation about BWM's vs WM's then it would be a point toward the WM's for versatility and impact on the game.

The thing about WM's in PvT is that I still think Ghost/Viking is overpowered as hell and should be how TvP is played. The WM's just allow the Terran to be incredibly safe vs...anything. There's no drawback to opening WM's, it can't be punished. If you open factory, you shouldn't be able to hold an air attack; yet you can with only a single factory. You shouldn't be able to have such a versatile defensive and offensive unit. The damage they deal is so big that they're still going to be useful in PvT fights and positioning. Like I said, the main problem is that PvT is already Terran favored, you're just adding in a badly designed and overpowered unit into the already favorable matchup. The only real viable unit that Protoss got for the matchup is the Oracle, which doesn't do anything lategame against the super comp that is Ghost/Viking.

e/ In regards to the numbers, it's just different. The comparison is kind of off based since they don't have THAT much in common, aside from the fact that they're mines. I mean, in BW they were used for positioning and combined with Tanks for good siege lines. In SC2 they're going to be used for way different uses. In BW it was cleared by an observer over the area, in SC2 even if you, as Protoss, were going to clear WM's, the WM's themselves can actually kill the observer if you scan. They're just so much more versatile but they're also completely different 'units'. Hell, BWM's weren't even a real unit But it's still just silly to think that the incredibly one dimensional BWM is anywhere near as good as the WM.

This post was edited by 820 on Feb 23 2013 11:24pm