I don't think they need to be removed, I think they need to be changed. They are far too effective in a push, IMO. That's what needs to be changed--their purpose on defense is fine, the use in drops I'm okay with. But I don't feel like marine widow mine should be a reasonable option.

Effective sometimes, and ineffective other times. And both have little dependence on the players .........

But everyone has suggested a change many times ... there's nothing you can change that wouldn't break the unit


Attack range - no
Damage - not really
cost - maybe adding more gas or something. I feel like if you increase the cost though you'd have to buff the unit because the opportunity cost of making WMs would increase greatly
Firing rate - no

supply - they already cost 2 supply, which is very high as is


If they removed the drilling claw upgrade I wouldn't be opposed to that ... as it makes counter-WM plays impossible .. but how much would that really change the standard metagame?


MAYBE making them visible would work ... but would remove half of their utility too

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Jun 17 2013 01:56pm

Burrow speed?
/e
I would also be fine with a gas cost increase.

This post was edited by BardOfXiix on Jun 17 2013 01:55pm

This is very similar to the tvp argument

Excellent play vs widowmines brings them down to a managable level ... but sloppy play at all means they rape all of your units



While I'm here I feel like I should mention that creep should recede faster when you clear tumors

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Jun 17 2013 02:01pm

Storm (high templar)

Medivac speed should cost something.
swarm hosts should be removed from the game.

protoss player here, lol

What if they lowered their movement speed? to make them less effective in pushes, although you could obviously use medivacs to transport them

I can agree there.



I considered this too but then it's really hard to relocate them on defense against drops/harass (which is already hard enough). I think it might be a viable option.

If I got to nerf two units, I think the oracle would be my second pick.

I like the oracle a lot, I just think that it gets countered too hard

maybe a range increase by 1, decrease damage and change WMs so they don't 1-shot them, lolz


If they want to make oracles a real harassment tool instead of a gimmicky piece of shit, it can't be a glass cannon with huge damage and tiny range



Edit: Perfect example of gimmicky shit, game 2 semi-finals

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Jun 17 2013 02:40pm