Walk in, force MSC overcharge, walk out, walk back in when overcharge is done. They still won't have enough until to stop you unless they go a HEAVY army build, like 3g expand. In which case you can go for an economic opening, knowing Protoss HAS to go defensive, and come out ahead and hit a bigger 2 or 3 base timing.

30 seconds is a huge swing.

And I suppose Zerg could stop it if they get 2 base banelings or something like that. But you're still looking at a maybe hold and a really bad situation if the Terran player doesn't go for that opening.

Wow, so protoss would actually have to make more than a stalker and an msc to hold a stimpush?
How fucking miserable.

Both Protoss and Zerg have the answers to stop this "unstoppable" timing window with 30 second reduction to stim research.

Even still, 20 second reduction would help, and still not change anything, this is not Wings of Liberty anymore, maps are ridiculously huge and Protoss has a free planetary fortress. 30 or 20 second reduction to stim research would most definitely not change the game, only assist in shutting down the amount of garbage Protoss can throw at Terran.

Protoss would absolutely have no issues stopping an attack from terran that hits a mere 30 seconds sooner (which would have less units).

This post was edited by NoLimit028 on Mar 20 2014 11:23am

I think you are underestimating how much this would fuck with the metagame on release...and I'm not talking about timing attacks that are hitting at say, 8:30 as opposed to 9 minutes. These are 1 base rushes from the beta days...real rushes.

I'll see if I can time it out, I used to know the build order but I've probably lost it by now. I'll give you an estimation of the army size and the time it hits, and you tell me what Zerg would have to do to stop it.

queens and 1-2 spines hold anything that early, really
You are probably talking about 1base 3rax stimpushes, but comeon, with those hyperspace overlords you can just see the addons, raxes, can just scout the expansion timing or the absence of an expansion and just prepare to hold it with ease.

Id think queens and spines could hold it, or roach, or ling bane, or ling roach bane, or any combination of these.

The maps are huge, I don't see how it could be unstoppable is the point.

You would definitely need banelings IMO. It's instant death if you go 3 bases, and if you go 2 base baneling you're thrown off quite a bit even if you do hold. Big larva investment + big gas investment. And even then it's not a definite hold with banelings, depends on the split and if marauders tank any of the bane hits.

If the Zerg does hold, I think Terran ends up in a stronger position in either case. So much has to be invested in the early game for Zerg that the drone count is going to be low. Terran, on the other hand, doesn't have to cut SCV production to keep army production going. Zerg is still up a base and has some "tech" and has an early gas income (that can be used for a bane timing or a fast lair) but has a low drone count from making early lings and has a "standard" 1 base advantage. Possibly low queen count as well, depends on how the hold goes. So it's not definitely game over for Zerg, but I think that even the cost of holding an attack like this puts Zerg in a rough spot.

You could be right though, the map size could be a big enough factor so that the timing is rendered useless. If it is, this game has gone even more to shit than when I really followed the scene xD Blizzard is becoming the next Riot instead of the next Valve.

It just seems like it wouldn't be all that scary to fend off, but in return not allow Protoss free wins vs T with garbage blink.

As I remember it, it was a pretty terrifying timing when you consider both the speed at which it hit and the strength of the army relative to the time at which it hit. But again, I'll try to map it all out over the next day or two and give you some rough numbers.

Exactly, it was terrifying.
About 4 years ago.

The game is much different now than it was wings beta.