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Nov 15 2012 05:03am
i'll just get into the macro side of it:

at 14 minutes, you're undersaturated.
you took your second gas way too soon -- you can open gasless and take gas around 30-40, or you can gas at 18 and pull for speed, then take gas again around 40. you don't need 2 gas before 30 supply in zvt.
you overmade lings in the beginning out of fear of incoming harassment, those could have all been drones, and should have been drones.
~keybind your macro hatchery~
you can safely expand against hellion pressure around 44-46, so long as you have good creep spread and QUEENS. when your first 2 queens finish, you should immediately start another 2, and slowly build up your queen count through the game. queens are great at tanking, and they keep your hive tech alive, so it's okay to have queens roaming the map. they're great against hellion banshee, too.
if terran opens 2 fact, you need to get lings. if he goes blue flame, you need lings. if not, you still need lings. the trick is to make lings to prepare to defend instead of blindly massing lings/banelings.
if you open muta, you need to take lair with your first 100 gas after speed, baneling nest @ 1/3 lair, and drop spire + baneling speed once lair is finished. you can typically delay banelings, but it depends on how the game is going.
after he snuck the bf helliosn into your base, you didn't put your drones back on gas. once you're into the midgame, gas is always your priority.

so you got up his ramp and saw he was massing pure thor - you should have made a shit ton of banelings. banelings are good.

e: also, yeah, i can't NOT mention the simcity, if you just had 2 evo chambers at your choke, and your queens in position, he couldn't have touched you.

This post was edited by nerobellum on Nov 15 2012 05:05am
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Nov 15 2012 05:07am
also, if you like mutas ling/bling, you can play an allin style lair against marine/tank terrans.

you take mutas and 2/2 and just mass ling/bling, and just keep massing and massing and massing until eventually you have units leftover after an engagement, then you just stream lings into his base.

it's an all in that happens at 22 minutes. because if it doesn't work, you just try harder to make it work, but if you try switching to hive, you lose.
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Nov 15 2012 05:08am
Quote (nerobellum @ Nov 15 2012 04:03am)
i'll just get into the macro side of it:

at 14 minutes, you're undersaturated.
you took your second gas way too soon -- you can open gasless and take gas around 30-40, or you can gas at 18 and pull for speed, then take gas again around 40. you don't need 2 gas before 30 supply in zvt.
you overmade lings in the beginning out of fear of incoming harassment, those could have all been drones, and should have been drones.
~keybind your macro hatchery~
you can safely expand against hellion pressure around 44-46, so long as you have good creep spread and QUEENS. when your first 2 queens finish, you should immediately start another 2, and slowly build up your queen count through the game. queens are great at tanking, and they keep your hive tech alive, so it's okay to have queens roaming the map. they're great against hellion banshee, too.
if terran opens 2 fact, you need to get lings. if he goes blue flame, you need lings. if not, you still need lings. the trick is to make lings to prepare to defend instead of blindly massing lings/banelings.
if you open muta, you need to take lair with your first 100 gas after speed, baneling nest @ 1/3 lair, and drop spire + baneling speed once lair is finished. you can typically delay banelings, but it depends on how the game is going.
after he snuck the bf helliosn into your base, you didn't put your drones back on gas. once you're into the midgame, gas is always your priority.

so you got up his ramp and saw he was massing pure thor - you should have made a shit ton of banelings. banelings are good.


Pure lings or pure blings vs mass Thor is insta-win. Not only do Thors suck against myriad small targets, but the cost-effectiveness of such an attack (coupled with the Terran's inability to quickly replace Thors) will essentially end the game.
Also thanks for saying all the timings for the buildings when going mutas, never knew that ^.^
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Nov 15 2012 05:14am
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Nov 15 2012 04:08am)
Pure lings or pure blings vs mass Thor is insta-win.  Not only do Thors suck against myriad small targets, but the cost-effectiveness of such an attack (coupled with the Terran's inability to quickly replace Thors) will essentially end the game.
Also thanks for saying all the timings for the buildings when going mutas, never knew that ^.^


He had tanks too :/
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Nov 15 2012 05:35am
@6:30 you've seen 2 marines and an SCV on the map. You have 12 lings and 8 more in production. Why? Go poke with the 12 you have (more than you need this early) and see if you actually need more lings or it's just marines for clearing the watchtowers.
@7, you see 2 hellions and no marines with them. that should tell you this is just hellion poke or hellion banshee poke. Instead, 14 more lings. So far that's 11 drones you could have but don't have.
You go out and scout a lot of hellions around 8. You have plenty of lings to deal with them, yet you make more--and banes. Don't invest precious gas in banes unless you need to, and don't keep building lings when you already have a ton. If you want to feel safer, build an extra spine or get a roach warren. If I see hellions and banshees, I assume it's a mech opener and get a roach warren.
Poor spore placement. One at each base is all you need.
Right before 10 minutes, you get a bunch of lings toasted. He hasn't been poking, yet you STILL have lings in production. Don't do that! DRONES WIN GAMES. You could really still have 12-20 lings out and tons of drones and be safe.
You have no creep spread 10 minutes into the game. Creep is essential for taking out those hellions--you can push your spine out towards them and force them away from your base.
12 minutes you finally kill his hellions. The first thing you do should be expand at least twice, since you're on 2 bases at 12 minutes. But really if you fix your creep spread + use queens to poke hellions back instead of lings, you'll have had a third for awhile and you just want to take a 4th. Or maybe a 5th if you already have a 4th.
You haven't seen what he's doing, yet you have an overlord sitting right next to his natural. Use that bad boy to see what he's got going on in his base--if you see more than 1 rax, you know it isn't mech. If it's mech (which should be your assumption based on the opening), you want a roach warren STAT. Roaches CRUSH hellions.
13 minutes you do good economic damage, but you need to be getting bases. Floating 2.5k, I'd take literally 4 bases.
After killing the hellions, leave lings on the watchtowers. You have map control for a period of time, so make use of it. Those watchtowers would have let you pick off tons of free tanks with your mutas, and might've ended the game. Thankfully, you pulled your drones well against the hellions and didn't suffer many losses.
Baneling bust was a bad idea. Don't bother busting that, just take all the bases and force him to stay on just his main (which is mined out by now). Make him fight you in the open field where you can make the most of your mass number of units, rather than a choke point where he can let you go at him one at a time. Again, you have map dominance after cleaning out his 3rd/nat. Take bases. All of the bases. And tech. Make him come get you, because at this stage you have a huge lead. Instead you suicide banes in, waste a ton of gas and mutas, and still are on 2 bases at 18 minutes.
19 minutes you have 26 drones. The fuck? Spend some of those larva making drones and pump up your economy. You spent way too many on lings early (and mid) and suffered because of it (and your poor engagements vs hellions). Imagine if you'd stopped at 12 lings, gotten a roach warren when you saw hellions and built 4 roaches. You're now safe from the hellions and have about 50 more drones (and probably a 3rd base).
Even with a tiny roach force you do tons of damage to his thor push. But you don't have the economy to reproduce those roaches and crush the attack, ending the game.

Big picture:
More drones, less lings. Feel comfortable on fewer lings. Bases. Fucking bases everywhere.

Other stuff:
Spread creep. More injects. Read and react to what he's doing. Hold watchtowers. More scouting.

Quote (Death_killaxx @ Nov 15 2012 04:14am)
He had tanks too :/


He had like 2 when he pushed. But the big thing is just your economy was so weak due to poor larva decisions early game + never expanding. Honestly you could have crushed his attack with drones it was so weak, but you didn't have the funds/larva/upgrades/units to do anything because you wasted a bunch of early larva on lings rather than drones.

This post was edited by BardOfXiix on Nov 15 2012 05:36am
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Nov 15 2012 05:36am
also, make 2 lings when your pool finishes to scout the ramp. you can learn a lot by scouting the ramp. something simple like the number of marines he has when you get there can tell you a lot.
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Nov 15 2012 05:40am
Quote (nerobellum @ Nov 15 2012 04:36am)
also, make 2 lings when your pool finishes to scout the ramp. you can learn a lot by scouting the ramp. something simple like the number of marines he has when you get there can tell you a lot.


Or building placement :) Bunker/lack of bunker can be a big tell. Gas timings if you can get 'em. Scouting is the #1 cause of lost games.
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Nov 15 2012 06:05am
Thanks fellas I have reviewed :)
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Nov 15 2012 10:21am
Quote (Burzum @ Nov 15 2012 06:18am)
unnecessary


2 evos are pretty standard, and you'll have the queen anyways, so the only real investment here is in the spine crawler



Edit: When going 2base muta I personally don't start upgrades or baneling speed until after the initial mutas



otherwise you'll nickel and dime your way down to having 5 mutas when the spire completes

This post was edited by eyewuvd2 on Nov 15 2012 10:24am
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Nov 15 2012 01:43pm
Quote (eyewuvd2 @ Nov 15 2012 08:21am)
2 evos are pretty standard, and you'll have the queen anyways, so the only real investment here is in the spine crawler



Edit:  When going 2base muta I personally don't start upgrades or baneling speed until after the initial mutas



otherwise you'll nickel and dime your way down to having 5 mutas when the spire completes


right, but if your gets scouted you may as well opt for baneling speed early, because he's going to be prepared for mutas. your opportunity to do blind economic damage is hindered by the impending turrets, so you may as well use 5 mutas to pick off stray tanks and hellions, and to get map control into the late game.

also, with a lair all-in, you don't need tons of mutas right away, and the 2/2 becomes more important than sheer mutalisk count. since we'll be on lair into the typical late game phase, there's no gas spent on festors/broods so you can dump into mutas later rather than sooner.
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