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Jul 23 2012 07:05am
Quote (coLstory @ 23 Jul 2012 14:45)
You realize that Terrans have better economy throughout the game, therefore they should have to pay more for w/e.  Protoss can barely afford their ups in the current way things work....


I'm not really aware of that, since terrans only have economic advantage when they get to a point when they mass ocs and spam mules while sacrificing workers, yeah, but it's not just simply hard to get to that point without being killed, but almost impossible in most games, other than that protoss has a worker advantage, and mules are mostly for compensationg that, if i go for fast 3 ocs protoss can just claim a third, since he will have time to set it up, and even defend it, If I'm greedy, he can be greedy too.
Protoss units cost more, that's true, but much less p units die, since even a zealot has almost the triple hp of a marine with combat shield.
Quote (madeinchinars @ 23 Jul 2012 14:46)
dunno why u complain about toss when terran is getting raped by zerg hard

yes toss has huge advantage in terms of upgrading especially since colossus get 3/3 much faster than u can get anything into vikings and then fuck you hard but that's game design and you really cant nerf toss too hard; maybe a slight mechanic change to terran. this has been an issue since the beginning of the game before any toss upgrade buffs or even when tosses realized we had chronoboost

i'd say for pvt terrans should have the ability to add viking/ghost tech better with slightly less risk versus where today you just see a protoss run away completely with the game during the 2/2 stage and the terran can't do jack to come back (this is more prominent outside grandmaster's league since terrans usually fuck up less in GM/high masters). How I don't know but robo-only upgrades seem really stupid (making colo an air attack though seems interesting)


making it easier to get ghosts and vikings is pointless and boring imo, the point of my post is mainly on making things more interesting, like the protosses would have to manage immortal count if i go mech and have a lot of armored units, more mind games, more scouting required, more exciting games, not just the boring standard like now.
Making colo an air attack seems interesting, and could involve stargate tech more, wich would make the game maybe better, but I don't think it could work, due to the lack of support around the colossi if he goes stargate, since colossus alone die so easily, they must have stuff to tank up damage.
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Jul 23 2012 07:08am
Quote (820 @ Jul 23 2012 01:51pm)
Blizzard says something so it's true?
Just because you're sitting in your Willy Wonka Dexter's Laboratory of SC2 theorycrafting and think you came up with a solution to a problem that has already corrected itself means nothing. Your "solution" doesn't even address your hypothetical problem rotfl, lategame would assume that Protoss would still have full upgrades, all you are suggesting is buffing the Terran early/midgame even further.

As for addressing your idiotic "solution" in itself, outside of the goal, it is just idiotic. Do you want to compare Protoss gateway units to Terran infantry? Terran's infantry upgrades upgrade their entire composition, so does the Protoss. Splitting up the Protoss upgrades is just stupid, you want an entire upgrade set for colossus and immortals? The only real unit that we use throughout the game ( occasionally at that ) is the colossus, so basically you want to make it so that the regular Protoss upgrades affect all ground units aside from the Colossus and the 1 or 2 Immortals that we'll have in our army?

You can argue that "WELL ZOMG TERRAN FACTORY UPGRADES IS ONLY FOR HELLION,THOR,TANK SO IT'S COMPARABLE!" Well no, it's not. Even if Terran infantry upgrades affected the factory units they still wouldn't use them whereas Protoss robotics units are essential to our composition. This is all ignoring the fact that you're uninformed and are awful at the game, there is no real Protoss advantage in the late game. The problem is when Terrans let Protoss play incredibly greedy and go into the lategame already ahead because Terran doesn't put any real form of pressure on. Right now there is no real way for Protoss to deal with mass cloaked ghosts, it's really easy for Terran to utterly devastate a Protoss army with 1 good engagement set up by cloaked ghosts/mass EMP. There's been a disgusting amount of games recently completely won with just that.

By the way, you don't suck because your mechanics suck, you suck because you're a moron. I can get to Masters without a keyboard, you're just a fucking fail who relies on excuses as to why you're bad.


WP :lol:
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Jul 23 2012 07:15am
Quote (Fej @ 23 Jul 2012 09:08)
WP :lol:


yeah i dunno how he does that

was smurfing on a friend's bronze without a keyboard and I didnt even know there the attack/build/buildings buttons where on the toggle thing lol

took me literally 10 seconds to find out how to attack move :P
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Jul 23 2012 07:17am
Quote (820 @ 23 Jul 2012 14:51)
Blizzard says something so it's true?
Just because you're sitting in your Willy Wonka Dexter's Laboratory of SC2 theorycrafting and think you came up with a solution to a problem that has already corrected itself means nothing. Your "solution" doesn't even address your hypothetical problem rotfl, lategame would assume that Protoss would still have full upgrades, all you are suggesting is buffing the Terran early/midgame even further.

As for addressing your idiotic "solution" in itself, outside of the goal, it is just idiotic. Do you want to compare Protoss gateway units to Terran infantry? Terran's infantry upgrades upgrade their entire composition, so does the Protoss. Splitting up the Protoss upgrades is just stupid, you want an entire upgrade set for colossus and immortals? The only real unit that we use throughout the game ( occasionally at that ) is the colossus, so basically you want to make it so that the regular Protoss upgrades affect all ground units aside from the Colossus and the 1 or 2 Immortals that we'll have in our army?

You can argue that "WELL ZOMG TERRAN FACTORY UPGRADES IS ONLY FOR HELLION,THOR,TANK SO IT'S COMPARABLE!" Well no, it's not. Even if Terran infantry upgrades affected the factory units they still wouldn't use them whereas Protoss robotics units are essential to our composition. This is all ignoring the fact that you're uninformed and are awful at the game, there is no real Protoss advantage in the late game. The problem is when Terrans let Protoss play incredibly greedy and go into the lategame already ahead because Terran doesn't put any real form of pressure on. Right now there is no real way for Protoss to deal with mass cloaked ghosts, it's really easy for Terran to utterly devastate a Protoss army with 1 good engagement set up by cloaked ghosts/mass EMP. There's been a disgusting amount of games recently completely won with just that.

By the way, you don't suck because your mechanics suck, you suck because you're a moron. I can get to Masters without a keyboard, you're just a fucking fail who relies on excuses as to why you're bad.

The first part is right, the whole idea is wrong at the point it would buff midgame terran, wich is clearly unnecessary i admit. I wasn't really suggesting to split the protoss upgrades, but more to merge the terrans, for more interesting games via techswitches.
And anyways I've been experimenting a lot with biomech, it's pretty much working to get factory units into your bio composition, like i posted a few times about getting thors with weapon upgrades into your composition, doing heavy support damage, or tanking up chargelot's damage with a little micro, or just absorbing ht energy via feedbacks, it would, be essential, if we weren't forced to do the bio compositions we have to do right now.
And I can't agree on cloak ghosts destroying the whole army, yes if the terran has tons of ghosts, you can't just mindlessly 1a into anywhere you want, you have to take care, and scout with observers, you should have more observers on your army, and split the whole deathball up a little bit, so it's much harder to emp the whole thing. And if you succeed to trade armies 1:1 with the terran you will just simply win, because of the warpin mechanic, you can just warp in 40 chargelots and rape the remaining troops of the terran.
you have never seen me play, and anyways if i would play at least 2 games a day I'd be masters already, told you, it has nothing to do with where i play. I have no problems dealing with anything, just have a sloppy macro sometimes.
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Jul 23 2012 07:17am
Quote (madeinchinars @ 23 Jul 2012 15:15)
yeah i dunno how he does that

was smurfing on a friend's bronze without a keyboard and I didnt even know there the attack/build/buildings buttons where on the toggle thing lol

took me literally 10 seconds to find out how to attack move :P


he doesn't.
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Jul 23 2012 07:26am
Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Jul 23 2012 05:17am)
The first part is right, the whole idea is wrong at the point it would buff midgame terran, wich is clearly unnecessary i admit. I wasn't really suggesting to split the protoss upgrades, but more to merge the terrans, for more interesting games via techswitches.
And anyways I've been experimenting a lot with biomech, it's pretty much working to get factory units into your bio composition, like i posted a few times about getting thors with weapon upgrades into your composition, doing heavy support damage, or tanking up chargelot's damage with a little micro, or just absorbing ht energy via feedbacks, it would, be essential, if we weren't forced to do the bio compositions we have to do right now.
And I can't agree on cloak ghosts destroying the whole army, yes if the terran has tons of ghosts, you can't just mindlessly 1a into anywhere you want, you have to take care, and scout with observers, you should have more observers on your army, and split the whole deathball up a little bit, so it's much harder to emp the whole thing. And if you succeed to trade armies 1:1 with the terran you will just simply win, because of the warpin mechanic, you can just warp in 40 chargelots and rape the remaining troops of the terran.
you have never seen me play, and anyways if i would play at least 2 games a day I'd be masters already, told you, it has nothing to do with where i play. I have no problems dealing with anything, just have a sloppy macro sometimes.


Merging Terran upgrades wouldn't do anything, I do think a couple tanks can do wonders for Terran positioning but the upgrades are quite irrelevant in battles. I don't really care if you've been "experimenting" with biomech, it's not as good or efficient as mnm/ghost/viking vs the standard Protoss composition because you need a very high ghost count and a decent viking count if the P has 3 or more colossus. To put in any thors or tanks in takes away from the crucial mnm count.

Splitting up Protoss army just leads to the Terran being able to kite way more efficiently and get you out of position. Having many observers is one way to stop it but there are a ton of timings Terran can hit where the Protoss can't have a high observer count and have the necessary colossus count to deal with a well upgraded and good composition of Terran units.
Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Jul 23 2012 05:17am)
he doesn't.


I could.
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Jul 23 2012 07:29am
Quote (820 @ 23 Jul 2012 09:26)
Merging Terran upgrades wouldn't do anything, I do think a couple tanks can do wonders for Terran positioning but the upgrades are quite irrelevant in battles. I don't really care if you've been "experimenting" with biomech, it's not as good or efficient as mnm/ghost/viking vs the standard Protoss composition because you need a very high ghost count and a decent viking count if the P has 3 or more colossus. To put in any thors or tanks in takes away from the crucial mnm count.

Splitting up Protoss army just leads to the Terran being able to kite way more efficiently and get you out of position. Having many observers is one way to stop it but there are a ton of timings Terran can hit where the Protoss can't have a high observer count and have the necessary colossus count to deal with a well upgraded and good composition of Terran units.

I could.


nah

820 would just be captain of one of the best dota teams in the world and just steal all their winnings and disappear off the face of the earth XD
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Jul 23 2012 07:31am
Quote (820 @ 23 Jul 2012 15:26)
Merging Terran upgrades wouldn't do anything, I do think a couple tanks can do wonders for Terran positioning but the upgrades are quite irrelevant in battles. I don't really care if you've been "experimenting" with biomech, it's not as good or efficient as mnm/ghost/viking vs the standard Protoss composition because you need a very high ghost count and a decent viking count if the P has 3 or more colossus. To put in any thors or tanks in takes away from the crucial mnm count.

Splitting up Protoss army just leads to the Terran being able to kite way more efficiently and get you out of position. Having many observers is one way to stop it but there are a ton of timings Terran can hit where the Protoss can't have a high observer count and have the necessary colossus count to deal with a well upgraded and good composition of Terran units.

I could.


Thors compensate pretty well for the cost of taking away 3 marauders from the composition imo they do almost 80 damage wich is heavy.
in splitting up i meant to do thinks like flanking the terran with chargelots, and that doesn't make kiting easier imo.
The problem with having a high viking count is that after the protoss runs out of colossi they are pretty useless, they aren't too good at ground fighting, and if you try to get rid of them, you just waste resources, since the protoss can just restart chronoing colossi out at any time he wants to.
Quote (820 @ 23 Jul 2012 15:26)
Merging Terran upgrades wouldn't do anything, I do think a couple tanks can do wonders for Terran positioning but the upgrades are quite irrelevant in battles. I don't really care if you've been "experimenting" with biomech, it's not as good or efficient as mnm/ghost/viking vs the standard Protoss composition because you need a very high ghost count and a decent viking count if the P has 3 or more colossus. To put in any thors or tanks in takes away from the crucial mnm count.

Splitting up Protoss army just leads to the Terran being able to kite way more efficiently and get you out of position. Having many observers is one way to stop it but there are a ton of timings Terran can hit where the Protoss can't have a high observer count and have the necessary colossus count to deal with a well upgraded and good composition of Terran units.

I could.


NA/sea doesn't count :P

/also, you were talking about timings, but if we are in the lategame, and it's not about timings anymore
midgame is a whole other thing, but in the midgame the t won't have mass ghosts out anyways.

This post was edited by Cpt_Ghost on Jul 23 2012 07:34am
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Jul 23 2012 07:52am
he's bronze for real ?

if he does, he should seriously shut the fuck up
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Jul 23 2012 07:54am
Quote (Cpt_Ghost @ Jul 23 2012 09:31am)
Thors compensate pretty well for the cost of taking away 3 marauders from the composition imo they do almost 80 damage wich is heavy.
in splitting up i meant to do thinks like flanking the terran with chargelots, and that doesn't make kiting easier imo.
The problem with having a high viking count is that after the protoss runs out of colossi they are pretty useless, they aren't too good at ground fighting, and if you try to get rid of them, you just waste resources, since the protoss can just restart chronoing colossi out at any time he wants to.


NA/sea doesn't count :P

/also, you were talking about timings, but if we are in the lategame, and it's not about timings anymore
midgame is a whole other thing, but in the midgame the t won't have mass ghosts out anyways.


zzz dont lump sea and na together.

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