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Nov 9 2012 04:38am
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Nov 9 2012 09:28pm)
E'rythang has a different build timer.  He's probably complaining about trying to hit tank production perfectly AND marine production perfectly AND viking/medivac production perfectly at the same time.  Which I suppose is a legitimate concern, seeing as most of Protoss's building is from the warpgate, where everything's cd is the same, and Zerg it's all about larva injects rather than spawn time.  In terms of seamless macro.

Not that I necessarily buy into what he's saying, of course, but I think that's what he's trying to say.


The CD for warpgate units is not the same though. And trying to hit perfect warpins is inefficient.
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Nov 9 2012 04:44am
Quote (ZachFreeman @ Nov 9 2012 03:38am)
The CD for warpgate units is not the same though. And trying to hit perfect warpins is inefficient.


It's slightly different but aren't most of them relatively similar? I'm no expert on exact timings.
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Nov 9 2012 04:47am
Quote (BardOfXiix @ Nov 9 2012 09:44pm)
It's slightly different but aren't most of them relatively similar?  I'm no expert on exact timings.


Zealot / stalker / sentry are all like 2-3 seconds apart which is 8-10 seconds apart iirc from templar. its just odd timings, hard to have gamesense for it.
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Nov 9 2012 04:51am
Quote (ZachFreeman @ Nov 9 2012 03:47am)
Zealot / stalker / sentry are all like 2-3 seconds apart which is 8-10 seconds apart iirc from templar. its just odd timings, hard to have gamesense for it.


Fuck it why am I trying to argue this guy's POV if I don't even share it.
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Nov 9 2012 06:05am
Quote (Death_killaxx @ Nov 9 2012 07:50am)
But also you have to designate and make sure you don't get supply blocked.... :/ Supply blocks blow for zerg...
That and injects, but also zerg has to decide what is units, scout a lot, creep spread.  If other races scouted more, they wouldn't complain...


not really that hard to play zerg, you forget ovies :O ???? practice friend, practice :) . 150 apm and you are fine creep spread, injects, macro hatches, unit control, and some map awareness,
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Nov 9 2012 06:11am
Quote (crazysmoker92 @ 9 Nov 2012 14:05)
not really that hard to play zerg, you forget ovies :O ???? practice friend, practice :) . 150 apm and you are fine creep spread, injects, macro hatches, unit control, and some map awareness,


Damn you reminded me for i have to get much faster.
Iso tips beside playing more on how to get at least 200 apm
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Nov 9 2012 06:18am
Quote (eXpLegend @ Nov 9 2012 09:51am)
The hell? Supply block affects all races, what kind of statement is that.

Scouting? All races need to scout wtf.


this...
not to mention that it probably affects zerg the least with their larva mechanic.
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Nov 9 2012 07:10am
Quote (Death_killaxx @ Nov 9 2012 03:50am)
But also you have to designate and make sure you don't get supply blocked.... :/ Supply blocks blow for zerg...
That and injects, but also zerg has to decide what is units, scout a lot, creep spread.  If other races scouted more, they wouldn't complain...


Every race scouts
Every race gets supply blocked
And no, Zerg don't need to decide when to drone or when to make units
You scout and don't play so fucking greedy trying to hit 70+ drones before making a single unit and you'll have no problem defending early aggression

Quote (Death_killaxx @ Nov 9 2012 03:07am)
Dgaf anymore. You guys' do not matter, you can bicker and rage all you want, but the decision is up to the blizzard reps.  If you really cared, go post on the battle.net forums.


Only person actually crying and raging about balance is you, everyone else is adding constructive criticism
Which is ironic because the only person that wouldn't be affected by balance issues is you, everyone else don't suck total cock at this game.

Quote (nerobellum @ Nov 9 2012 03:54am)
but they're all game assistance mechanics that apm can be allocated on in down time, which is the only learning curve zerg has beyond learning to drone cycle.

and getting supply blocked as terran as WAY worse than getting supply blocked as zerg, because we can just drop a hatchery and que up 6 overlords, and the supply block pays for itself once that hatchery is up and running.

furthermore, toss/terran are the aggressor in most standard zvx games, because zerg units just aren't good at up-front positive engagements until hive tech, because of that, scouting is much more important for zerg than it is for terran/toss. the worst zerg can do is blind counter a cheese, anything beyond that and you're just managing the correct unit composition to hold aggression until hive. there's no burden of game completion on zerg because as long as you maintain your macro and make smart defensive engagements, you can overwhelm with hive units which is when zerg is strongest -- the severe late game with 20+ infestors and enough gas to sustain.

e: when was the last time you saw a terran/toss get a build-order loss to a zerg? meanwhile, low level zergs get shit on by build orders all the time because they don't have the knowledge to scout/react correctly, and if they do react, they often overreact and overproduce units out of fear.

e2: a good example of overreaction is when a zerg scouts that toss has a stargate and makes 6 spore crawlers at each base, or scouting a toss 2-base allin and cutting drones in favor of early unit production. and my personal favorite, when zerg sees a 2 rax pressure opening and immediately  drops 3 spines


Zerg is usually the aggressor, you don't see zerg stuck on 3 bases turtling to max before pushing its always the protoss or almost always the terran that is turtling on 3 bases until max and expanding as they push out
Terran and Toss can poke and prod all day long early game but the second they get on creep theres always the chance of a swaming counter attack
Early/mid game zerg also have a ridiculously mobile army to pull back the opponents main army

Quote (BardOfXiix @ Nov 9 2012 06:44am)
It's slightly different but aren't most of them relatively similar?  I'm no expert on exact timings.


28~32 seconds for zealot/sentry/stalker
45 seconds for high templar/dark templar
+ 5 seconds of actual warp in time
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Nov 9 2012 11:54am
Quote (LegendaryIcicle @ Nov 9 2012 06:10am)
Every race scouts
Every race gets supply blocked
And no, Zerg don't need to decide when to drone or when to make units
You scout and don't play so fucking greedy trying to hit 70+ drones before making a single unit and you'll have no problem defending early aggression



Only person actually crying and raging about balance is you, everyone else is adding constructive criticism
Which is ironic because the only person that wouldn't be affected by balance issues is you, everyone else don't suck total cock at this game.



Zerg is usually the aggressor, you don't see zerg stuck on 3 bases turtling to max before pushing its always the protoss or almost always the terran that is turtling on 3 bases until max and expanding as they push out
Terran and Toss can poke and prod all day long early game but the second they get on creep theres always the chance of a swaming counter attack
Early/mid game zerg also have a ridiculously mobile army to pull back the opponents main army



28~32 seconds for zealot/sentry/stalker
45 seconds for high templar/dark templar
+ 5 seconds of actual warp in time


Wrong I gave my insight and was flamed for it. The people in this forum are trolls and elitist assholes
Grow the fuck up seriously .
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Nov 9 2012 12:01pm
Quote (Kurdisch_styler @ Nov 9 2012 12:18pm)
this...
not to mention that it probably affects zerg the least with their larva mechanic.


Yes. You are absolutly right. Larva mechanic needs nerf. Max 7 larva per hatch would be a decent start. For 3(full) + 4( inject )
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