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Jan 24 2022 06:04am
A new textline has been added recently on 2.4 patch note, as describes :

Changed how attack speed is determined while transformed as a Werewolf. Attack speeds while transformed should match attack speeds while untransformed (enhanced by the Werewolf's increased attack speed).

So basically, since human form has a higher base attack speed, it means either two scenarios are incoming at high chance :

1. 3frame fury possible again
2. 4frame fury possible with both/grief etc , basically without tomb reaver


Also horrible low level experience with werewolf/werebear will be fixed as well?
At 1 point only, wolf and bear form had penalties on base attack speed. Since now thats removed, will that make a smoother ladder experience with shapeshifters?


Also interested on other classes when transforming into wolf/bear, would like to check if the attack speed applies on each classes base ias.
Very interesting change indeed o.O
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Jan 24 2022 03:33pm
It’s hard to say. It’s very poorly worded. Not to mention the people running the show have no idea what they are doing and taking a lot of ideas from the idiot llama.

You will have to wait and see what they mean when the ptr test comes out.


But it likely means that IAS from other sources other than weapon will he added to ias total. Where before, when In shape form, only ias on weapon counted.

For example, the ias on highlords never did anything for a shape Druid

But again, it’s all wait and see
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Jan 24 2022 04:24pm
Quote (Overpriced @ Jan 24 2022 04:33pm)
Where before, when In shape form, only ias on weapon counted.

For example, the ias on highlords never did anything for a shape Druid

But again, it’s all wait and see


Not entirely true, with wolf form the most common weapons (ebotd,grief,etomb) won't require any additional IAS, but when you bring chill/slow into account it can matter:

Quote (inkanddagger @ Jul 18 2017 02:02pm)
Effects of being chilled on the werewolf form:

This is a topic I wish I had invested research into long ago, because the reality is actually kind of surprising and many builds can be adjusted.

Being exposed to cold damage in player vs player "chills" the player (your wolf turns blue). This gives an attack speed penalty which often results in either the long attack or the Fury attacks or both being slowed by a frame or more.

But this can actually be overcome with oias! (ias off the weapon), as well as the werewolf skill itself being at an appropriate level.

Let's look at an example. And, by the way, I use the German speed calc for this, and check the decrep box to simulate the effect of being chilled (it's the same -50% penalty).

Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe:

Base speed = 0
Common knowledge: 60 ias is the 9/5/5/5/5 Fury breakpoint, thus BotDz is at the breakpoint already.
Effect of being chilled: drops your attack speed to 10/6/6/6/6 Fury
Werewolf skill level increased to 29: increases long attack to 9/6/6/6/6 Fury
Werewolf skill level increased to 31 and 20 oias (such as highlords): 9/5/5/5/5! No additional ias useful or needed.

So you can maintain 5 frame Fury while being chilled and using a BotDz with a level 31 and above Werewolf skill plus 20 oias.

But what if you use 3/20/20s and you want to use Guillaumes Face? Your werewolf skill will be at level 26 (20 base, Torch (3), Anni (1), Highlord's (1), Battle Command (1)).

With a level 26 Werewolf skill and 30 oias, you will stil be at 9/5 Fury while being chilled. That means Highlord's + Bloodfist, or, if you want to use 'Rends, an ias jewel in your Gface! Unheard of in the past on wereform Druids, but the reality is that it can actually get you to the breakpoint you want to be at while not having to bother with a Raven Frost.


Hope this information has been helpful! If you have a specific weapon and gear setup you want me to check for you, feel free to ask here.


There's also the case with very slow weapons benefiting from Werewolf skill IAS which seems to stop being a factor once you get to about 8~ frame attacks. Far as I am aware oias works on Werebears, as you can absolutely push an etomb 1 frame further with oias in bearform. Weapons like 110+ ias pbs obviously aren't going to need anything more and may lend to the idea bears also don't benefit from it.
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Jan 24 2022 04:31pm
Quote (Oilerfan @ Jan 24 2022 04:24pm)
Not entirely true, with wolf form the most common weapons (ebotd,grief,etomb) won't require any additional IAS, but when you bring chill/slow into account it can matter:



There's also the case with very slow weapons benefiting from Werewolf skill IAS which seems to stop being a factor once you get to about 8~ frame attacks. Far as I am aware oias works on Werebears, as you can absolutely push an etomb 1 frame further with oias in bearform. Weapons like 110+ ias pbs obviously aren't going to need anything more and may lend to the idea bears also don't benefit from it.



It does matter if you trying to reach the highest fpa. Of which you can’t hit with ebotd or grief.

So yes allowing +ias from gear to work with werewolf/bear is actually a huge bonus. Especially considering Druid doesn’t have critical strike, making highlords of even a bigger boost to them.


But again, we won’t know what they mean because it’s very poorly worded and blizzard/VV is stupid af.
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Jan 24 2022 04:41pm
Quote (Overpriced @ Jan 24 2022 05:31pm)
It does matter if you trying to reach the highest fpa. Of which you can’t hit with ebotd or grief.

So yes allowing +ias from gear to work with werewolf/bear is actually a huge bonus. Especially considering Druid doesn’t have critical strike, making highlords of even a bigger boost to them.


But again, we won’t know what they mean because it’s very poorly worded and blizzard/VV is stupid af.


Oh I'm not saying the change won't matter, it'll be huge for shapeshift builds (if my imagination is anything to go off of). I'm just saying oias does work for shapeshift builds already, and the problem seems to be the interaction between werewolf skill ias and oias.

The "fix" I am imagining is they'll let the Werewolf skill ias make noteable change even with quicker weapons, instead of it only allowing a jump from a 10 frame attack to a 9 frame one.

This post was edited by Oilerfan on Jan 24 2022 04:42pm
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Jan 24 2022 07:28pm
See it this way, class changes are close to only buffs. I can see people complaining about how ww ias tooltip was a lie. If it’s a buff then you’ll see a lot of weapon options available for wolf and bear.

If it’s a nerf, they would have to introduce new breakpoints for something like Fury in human form(not likely, it’d be very messy and long process). And human druids swing slow as hell so everything attacks at slow motion.
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Jan 24 2022 09:40pm
I'd love to see this char buffed. Used to always say SS druid had so much hidden potential
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Jan 26 2022 04:00am
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/werewolf-and-werebear-skills-are-useless-in-ptr/101741

Seriously VV broke shapeshifters at the moment, and I reallllly hope this is not intended, will see
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