Interesting that you say that, I just think whats different here is that mentality of d2 wasnt the same as of today's.

In today's gaming people are more and more likely to pay cash for advantages, Pay 2 Win, back then it wasn't as much the case.

Just don't go around and bitch about diablo Immortal then.

term "fun" is strictly personal

for some people legit play is more funny

for others botting is funnier



if you cant deal with this simple concept, this forum is not a place for you

This post was edited by kronosHardcore on Jul 30 2019 11:28am

I know plenty of ppl that are also very generous and helpful in D2, some who bot and some who do not. It's not so easy to draw a line between "good and evil", in fact rarely are there such absolutes.

By participating on jsp we choose to embrace everything that goes along with it. I do not like bots either, but that doesn't mean I am helpless and cannot find a way to still make a profit and enjoy the game.

What dodge?

You’re not "working hard", you’re just being inefficient. You complain here that no one will buy your Charsi-worthy trash and demand that people offer more fg for your shit. The overwhelming majority of players don’t want to grind Icy Cellar with a Kira Zon 24/7 in the hopes of getting a Shako for their PvP char.

I agree. Many people don’t have time to play for 10 hours a day. Besides, botting made stuff cheaper to buy right?

Edit: the dog in your sig looks cool.

This post was edited by BlueRipTide on Jul 30 2019 01:40pm

Same. I was too busy to flesh out the post.
To start, people like BearTribe @ the bnet forums (and him specifically) are irritatingly stupid players that have not changed or improved their gameplay or interaction with it in 20 years.
They have logged in like clockwork every day since 2003 to complain that enigma is ruining the game and should be removed. They want a d2 game with no runewords but refuse to play classic.

and again, I do agree with your overall conclusion. I just don't think you're arriving at that conclusion in the right way.



When people bought and sold items on sites like postabout and ebay, it was a very small percentage of the playerbase. People in general were not playing strictly to sell items and more specifically people played the game to do more than just bot (presumably for the purpose of trading)
Back then (and for the most part the same today) the only items whose prices were affected by third party sites were hacked items and a few specific luxuries like windforce and grandfather.

The issue is that jsp dominates the d2 economy now. The bulk of bots now operate to sell on jsp, other cash sites buy understocked items through jsp and the majority of trades ingame are facilitated through jsp.
It's not a fair comparison between something like PA which at its height had maybe 50 trades a day and JSP which exceeds that per minute even though d2 has been losing players nonstop since 2008.



I would disagree. There are several private servers that operate without jsp trading and they've been doing fairly well. One of them has around the same number of players as USWEST, and while west might be a dead shit realm that's still a significant population for a private server.
The game would survive jsp disappearing.

I mention the servers constantly because there are a lot of people in this subforum who would seemingly enjoy the game more if they played on those servers.
That they choose to stay on bnet suggests that what they really want is not a game with less bot, but a game where they have more fg. They're playing d2jsp instead of playing d2.



I used to say the same thing but at some point I actually paid attention and the number of people who pvp on d2 is shockingly low.
You wouldn't think so, since the only unique feature d2 has is its pvp dynamic but there are a lot of people out there who still think d2 pvm is fun or challenging. Maybe it's something in the water. Maybe quebecois still retain genetic memory of the War of 1812 and instinctively lose to americans. Who knows



Items like 2/20/30/2os circlets didn't exist until the game was almost a decade old. Clientless mass botting and bot (or exploit) rerolling were the only things that made those items possible. I remember seeing the first 2/20/30/2os necro circlet on east and the pvp community was going nuts over it. People played for years without those crazy items and did fine. Builds changed to compensate for the power creep of new items.
For many years the norm even at the highest tiers of play was 65 fcr trappers and 75 frw necros. Druids didn't start hitting the last fcr bp until after d2 was already losing players.
D2's pvp actually was at it's height before those items were available.



I do agree with that. The site has been very helpful although I'm not sure I see a difference between wasting an hour ingame trading and wasting an hour on jsp trading.
I even agree that bots have helped the game. I just don't agree with the idea that jsp is the only reason this game is still active. I'd argue that ENIGMA is the only reason this game is still active.

This post was edited by Worrywart on Jul 30 2019 03:35pm

Well that was Fun to read

true reason why this game is still active is because its class game, iconic model of rpg genre (one of very few) with great vintage graphic

even without enigma d2 servers, official and not, will be full of old school players



its not that hard to swap your pala-bot for soso-bot also

but, i predict some whine that your precious ghost/apparition/spider/bug/snake/fly/whatever assassin would not be pvp imba anymore

1) So there is no definite wrong or right in ethics? A child rapist should be forgiven? The line should not be drawn anywhere at any time?

2) That's your opinion, but it is not ethically correct. A game is a -game-, and should it not be allowed to be enjoyed by everyone, at least those that could afford to pay for the game as it is? And then not be given a weaker position in the market in the game because you paid a botter to get your gear for you? That now means that the "poor" player must work much harder to trade for the gear he or she wants.

3) If your point is that the pvp scene was bad because of less bots, then the problem lies with Blizzard. They should allocate enough resources so that the game is impossible to cheat. As always, the problem is unethical leadership.

4) Don't you think the game would be more fun without people cheating?

5) I think it probably would. But Blizzard should have a trading forum as i described in my last post, so that trading would be more efficient.





Yeah, a child rapist thinks just that is "fun". But -publicly-, there must be lines drawn where everyone "knows" what is "fun" or not.

Completely bullshit argument, as usual.




To me it is very simple.

Agree with the second sentence.

This post was edited by Taurean on Jul 30 2019 04:23pm

So you equate cheating on a children's video game to child rape?