Wisp should be allowed on WoF sins, no real debate on that lol, you lose 102 fcr by using it, so I dont see how its bm.
Should also allow 'Lo' so they can maintain 102 fcr bp with c/c.

On the topic of 'L8z' play in d2. From my experience (doesn't mean its a fact), very defensive play by very good players is overpowered in d2. Its just so hard to damage people in d2 (who have good ping ) that prioritise not getting hit.

I agree that its possible to beat most 'good' defensive players, but imo you either have to outplay them (which is hard if they are very good) or play defensively yourself - and then it comes down to who has more time -.-

Trappers have an advantage tho, as they have a skill that can damage most characters that are very l8z if you are fast at namelocking (i.e. mindblast), which means they perform better than most at chasing down "l8z'ers". But against a necro (where mb does no damage), duels can just take aaages even if both players are not playing defensively (i.e. just are good at avoiding hits), and when both players decide to l8z and are both very good, it can just be a stalemate/ never ending duel

Exactly, even though sm helps to slow people down can still out run

N we all know wsg > sins anyway

Good wsg necro > Sins, but its hard for most other characters vs good patient trappers because of mb dmg - there are builds you can make where mb does no dmg, then it becomes hard for trapper (especially on something like a hdin that can charge out of anything and kills u in like 2 hits -.- )

On trap vs trap tho, on realms where Lo isn't allowed on c/c sins, I'd use 102 w/s with t-god. 174 with Lo'd Valk + wisp I've heard is good too.

Yeah gota use regular dr lol

And you're right, good patient trappers ( whille still being offensive ) letting 3-4 traps lay before getting closer can be tough for a lot, but sins don't tank too much themselves, 2 nados can ruin you're day

I've 102 tgod before but never used a w/s valk sin, opens up a few options for sure

I think a lot of people complain too much about sins in general though

The thread is specifically about ls trap vs wof trap, who cares about how other classes fair vs trappers in general?

Wisp doesn't impact how well a trapper plays vs a necro or a Druid, and I don't believe he's asking to get the rule changed for wof trap vs lite sorcs, cs zons, or foh pallys, so why bring it up?

It seems like the people who are against wisp on wof trappers have an axe to grind with trappers in general, and making a rule exception for a sub class of trappers is asking too much

No no no, that was original thought, but then it got to Tvt in general ls vs ls and using Lo in helm ect. And if you are going to make a change you need to specify exactly or people will even act dumb and use it even when it's known fact

Edit: and is all about trying to better balance if possible ofc

This post was edited by jlzm on Aug 1 2014 12:10pm

The original post, topic, and poll were all very specific to tvt in a match up of wof vs ls
People are voting thinking it is about tvt ls vs ls and other sin match ups, and then the topic was derailed by general x vs trapper talk.

That's what I said

Wof vs ls was original thought

But then it got to the other and would obviously have to be. talked about before someone now running a ladder throws it in and every sin starts using it not just the intended wof

I thought that was obvious since he stressed specifically wof

That doesn't explain why Necros and Druids vs trap are being brought up here lol

Edit: the rule has been updated, so it doesn't matter at this point anyway I guess

This post was edited by Mstrforce on Aug 1 2014 01:12pm

It got from wof vs ls to ls vs ls and l8z into basically trap v all lol