I run both a full lightning sorc that does 44k@200fcr with nearly perfect gear and a es lightning sorc doing around 14k lightning with full tal’s and I prefer to use the es lightning sorc for pvm. I run two 118 mana/10fcr rings to even out the fcr and mana issues. I’m currently at 940 life and 3200 mana. No mana issues what so ever.

I'll reiterate.

here's the actual damage numbers:

trash tal build lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 50 180 dps
trash tal build lightning avg vs broken immune: 12 287 dps

budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 54 836 dps
budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: 16 999 dps

cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 52 750 dps
cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: 21 587

context:
identical inventory.
tal set socked with -5/+3 facets and fcr rings replaced with crescent moon, shako -5/+3, double soj, flat 2/15 amu, arach. (shako could be replaced with a 2/20 or 3/20 circ, enabling you to use any 0 fcr amu, further increasing the dmg of the cmoon build)

DPS, damage per cast, flat on screen max damage - you name it, it doesn't matter. the damage ratio is identical no matter the measurement since both builds have 117 fcr (unlike in your hilariously incorrect calculations where you either unknowingly or knowingly left the cmoon build at 105 fcr)

in other words:
budget cmoon build deals more damage vs 0 res mobs (50 180 vs 54 750)
budget cmoon build deals WAY more damage against low-mid-high res mobs (feel free to have me check the ratio of any given mob, lmk)
budget cmoon build deals RIDICULOUSLY more damage against broken immunes (12 287 vs 16 999)

add a trash griffon to the equation and it gets even more ridiculous, as evident by the verifiable numbers presented above. note that a trash griffon is cheaper than tal arm + amu early on in the ladder season.



tal set is great on blizz and fire sorcs. it is, however, garbage on light sorcs. the numbers prove that, the fact that nobody plays it proves that.

or is everyone just conspiring against you?

You just copied and pasted the same numbers. Again, why are you using DPS? This is Diablo 2; animations are tied to frames, not seconds or milliseconds.

If you really want to use a damage-per-time number (which is not needed here, and I don’t know why you would), you can use damage per frame. There is no need to make things more complicated than they need to be. It’s making things less clear.

Just show your damage numbers.

I'm also curious about your results which say that no griffon does more damage than griffon at baseline. show math?

mate are you trolling me or are you just new to the game?

the measurement doesn't matter since both compared builds have the same cast rate, the same frames, the same number of lightning bang bangs per second.

the ratio is what matters. I could translate the very commonly used DPS measurement into damage per morning coffee shits if that's more comprehensible to you?

let me try again, see if this sticks with you:

trash tal build lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 50 180 (BASELINE)
trash tal build lightning avg vs broken immune: 12 287 (BASELINE)

budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 54 836 (9.27% INCREASE)
budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: 16 999 (38.34% INCREASE)

cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 52 750 dps (5.12% INCREASE)
cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: 21 587 (75.69% INCREASE)

again, those numbers are verifiable. all the gear in every setup has been listed.

e: shako build dealing more damage to 0 res mobs than griffon makes complete sense. +2 sks vs +1 sk, -elr makes less difference vs 0 res mobs, which is why your shit build does lower but similar damage to 0 res mobs while doing dogshit damage vs anything with even a speck of light res.

This post was edited by Dolphy on Aug 8 2024 03:13pm

Yes? This was exactly my point. I just said that using damage per x time numbers are not needed and just confusing for no reason. We both use the same frames so why are you using damage per seconds?

The measurement is critical here and it does matter for two reason:

• If the purpose is to compare and share your results with other people, your numbers must be clear and you must show how you reached them.
• It appears that our numbers are vastly different and either yours or mine are innacurate and I want to see how we got there.

Shako does not do more damage than griffon. I think you are a bit confused and at this point, I don't think you are willing to learn anything different. It feels like your need to be right has made you disingenuous. I don't really have a strong stance on this, and I don't make exaggerations. I'm just interested in discussing the intricacies of a couple builds. We aren't after the same thing so I don't think it's productive to argue about this.

sigh. let's try again:

117 fcr is 2.08 casts per second. divide the DPS number by 2.08 and you're at AVG dmg per cast

and you end up with:

trash tal build lightning avg vs 0 res mob: 50 180 / 2.08 (BASELINE)
trash tal build lightning avg vs broken immune: 12 287 / 2.08 (BASELINE)

budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: (9.27% INCREASE)
budget cmoon build WITHOUT GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: (38.34% INCREASE)

cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs 0 res mob: (5.12% INCREASE)
cmoon build WITH GRIFFON lightning avg vs broken immune: (75.69% INCREASE)

DPS/PER CAST/PER COFFEE SHIT are all arbitrary quantifications. the ratio is always the same, listed above. tldr: your build has awful damage even compared to a non-griffon cmoon build.

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/lcxo0x6h

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/

calculations, full builds and calculator in full transparency there. switch between target dummy (0 res mob), shit like venom lords and storm casters for different ACTUAL damage values, not the on screen bullshit you've been using in your ''calculations''.

shako build deals more damage to 0 res enemies because at that point, infy, griffon, cmoon and rbfs have already reduced its resistances to -100. the -20 from griffon does nothing, which is why the shako, with its additional +1, deals more damage against a -100 mob than griffon does.

I have no idea how that doesn't make sense to you. can't say I've ever encountered someone so stubborn in their lack of knowledge.

either way, I hope you've learned something from this.

This post was edited by Dolphy on Aug 9 2024 01:58am

Robo-style "players" started with tal, or junk gear - at league start.
But why even start with lightning sorc, when Blizzard, or even frozen orb is better?

After you find your runes, as the guy wrote in point 2, you make a hammerdin.

Hammerdin with trash - fun setup: enigma, pala spirit, shako, wizardspike 7%mf jewel (!), arach, trang gloves, 2x nagel /40mf ring, war travs, mara - shits on your lightning sorc IMHO.
With some trash merc: insight / forti, or duriel's shell earlier / tal mask (you can take off the mask from your sorc).
More MF than sorc, 125 fcr, like 300 MF after gheed, 18% dmg reduced. You add a CTA + pspirit on switch + get forti for your merc and that's a decent fun-char that can clear everything apart from those magic immune monsters in act3 temples that nobody ever visits (because why). Also you can use it for rushes, or diaballs, or whatever.

So to sum up: the best step 2 of lightning sorc is to make a hammerdin, but as the guy above said, whatever floats your boat, you can make a poison dagger necroman

Yea a Hammerdin basically solves every problem