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Sep 18 2022 11:03am
Quote (Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins @ Sep 18 2022 09:26am)
No.

People hate poorly designed new things. Of which these charms were extremely poorly designed, just like everything the devs have put out in d2r


lol
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Sep 18 2022 12:32pm
Quote (Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins @ Sep 18 2022 06:26pm)
No.

People hate poorly designed new things. Of which these charms were extremely poorly designed, just like everything the devs have put out in d2r


Do you've any argument as to why it's extremely poorly designed?
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Sep 18 2022 12:50pm
Quote (Alicexd @ Sep 18 2022 01:32pm)
Do you've any argument as to why it's extremely poorly designed?



The GCs in particular:
Buff already top end builds such as Java zon and lightning sorc by a lot

Buff super cheap builds that bots primarily use such as blizzard sorc. Making blizzard sorc, which is extremely cheap to gear in early / mid / late ladder, one of, if not the top build overall.

Widen the gap between elemental builds and physical builds, as the physical Gc is next to useless

The GCs do nothing for bad builds, as if you can’t kill a non immune, being able to kill immunes doesn’t matter, such as frost nova or zon elemental arrows

Fire builds simply just needed blizzard to change the maximum value of fire resistance so that players could break fire immunity with infinity

The GCs were so poorly designed they don’t affect traps, further nerfing assassin. Assassin already wasn’t particularly good in pvm and just got comparatively worse. They have systemically super nerfed assassin in both pvm and pvp to the point where sin is so useless that they might as well delete it from the game

Other d2r changes:
WW is still much worse the legacy
They way over buffed zon with dodge/avoid changes
Over buffed necro with bone sprit/spear damage increase
Completely nerfed assassin into the ground due to fhr changes and no wsg
Shared stash increase was so poorly designed that it occasionally deletes items
Auto gold pickup was so poorly designed that you have to walk over it still


Do i really need to go on?


Instead of adding these GCs, all they had to do was normalize the resistance levels of cold and fire to that of lightning across monsters to make builds such as fire builds viable. But because they are completely clueless and don’t know how the game functions, they chose a terrible way, such as these GCs.
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Sep 18 2022 03:35pm
Quote (Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins @ Sep 18 2022 08:50pm)
The GCs in particular:
Buff already top end builds such as Java zon and lightning sorc by a lot

Buff super cheap builds that bots primarily use such as blizzard sorc. Making blizzard sorc, which is extremely cheap to gear in early / mid / late ladder, one of, if not the top build overall.

Widen the gap between elemental builds and physical builds, as the physical Gc is next to useless

The GCs do nothing for bad builds, as if you can’t kill a non immune, being able to kill immunes doesn’t matter, such as frost nova or zon elemental arrows

Fire builds simply just needed blizzard to change the maximum value of fire resistance so that players could break fire immunity with infinity

The GCs were so poorly designed they don’t affect traps, further nerfing assassin. Assassin already wasn’t particularly good in pvm and just got comparatively worse. They have systemically super nerfed assassin in both pvm and pvp to the point where sin is so useless that they might as well delete it from the game

Other d2r changes:
WW is still much worse the legacy
They way over buffed zon with dodge/avoid changes
Over buffed necro with bone sprit/spear damage increase
Completely nerfed assassin into the ground due to fhr changes and no wsg
Shared stash increase was so poorly designed that it occasionally deletes items
Auto gold pickup was so poorly designed that you have to walk over it still


Do i really need to go on?


Instead of adding these GCs, all they had to do was normalize the resistance levels of cold and fire to that of lightning across monsters to make builds such as fire builds viable. But because they are completely clueless and don’t know how the game functions, they chose a terrible way, such as these GCs.




also:
except for maybe mono-ele-sorcs no new variety, all currently top builds remain top builds and stay ahead by the same margin as before
after breaking immunities with sunder charm, infinity atm applies its full 1:1 -res => to be effective against pierced immunes, you'll need BOTH a sunder charm AND infinity
Physical builds who arguably would need a stronger buff to even be viable actually have the hardest drawback - 75 single res(especially fire, flickering flame lul) is easy to compensate....25% more phys dmg taken or lower magic resist isn't.
also not just traps, but any build with minions or traps DONT profit from the charm at all => fucked
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Sep 18 2022 05:47pm
Quote (Mirosworld @ Sep 18 2022 02:35pm)
^this

also:
except for maybe mono-ele-sorcs no new variety, all currently top builds remain top builds and stay ahead by the same margin as before
after breaking immunities with sunder charm, infinity atm applies its full 1:1 -res => to be effective against pierced immunes, you'll need BOTH a sunder charm AND infinity
Physical builds who arguably would need a stronger buff to even be viable actually have the hardest drawback - 75 single res(especially fire, flickering flame lul) is easy to compensate....25% more phys dmg taken or lower magic resist isn't.
also not just traps, but any build with minions or traps DONT profit from the charm at all => fucked


I think someone should do a test run of players 8 hell and run chaos with an end game gear light sorc, and then that same end game gear for light sorc + charm

This charm does make the already top tier characters stronger, but id argue that the clear speed of chaos wont make much difference.

Now run the same chaos with fire druid / blizz sorc / fb sorc / fire zon / cold zon

There will be a HUGE difference in speed

Thing is, those top tier chars already clear at a fast speed and i would take them getting a minimal improvement in clear speed if it also means i dont have to build the same builds to run chaos in
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Sep 18 2022 06:27pm
Quote (Maiklessdoge @ Sep 19 2022 01:47am)
I think someone should do a test run of players 8 hell and run chaos with an end game gear light sorc, and then that same end game gear for light sorc + charm

This charm does make the already top tier characters stronger, but id argue that the clear speed of chaos wont make much difference.

Now run the same chaos with fire druid / blizz sorc / fb sorc / fire zon / cold zon

There will be a HUGE difference in speed

Thing is, those top tier chars already clear at a fast speed and i would take them getting a minimal improvement in clear speed if it also means i dont have to build the same builds to run chaos in


p8 hell cs with light sorc + charm will now melt immunes more than it did before.
fire druid/blizz sorc/fb sorc/ fire zon / cold zon will now melt immunes instead of a) letting the phys part of arma/volcano/boulder do it, b) letting merc do it(who the fuck played blizz mono-ele sorc in cs before? yes that becomes viable now) c) using fo playing dual ele to kill fire immunes d) using multishot/ga e) using multishot/ga
Every non-immune will stay the same.

fire druid and blizz sorc will still have trouble hitting moving monsters, fire and cold zon have bad teleporting and thus are slower in speed => same as before
fb sorc will be way faster, I'll give you that

This post was edited by Mirosworld on Sep 18 2022 06:30pm
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Sep 18 2022 09:11pm
Quote (Mirosworld @ Sep 18 2022 05:27pm)
p8 hell cs with light sorc + charm will now melt immunes more than it did before.
fire druid/blizz sorc/fb sorc/ fire zon / cold zon will now melt immunes instead of a) letting the phys part of arma/volcano/boulder do it, b) letting merc do it(who the fuck played blizz mono-ele sorc in cs before? yes that becomes viable now) c) using fo playing dual ele to kill fire immunes d) using multishot/ga e) using multishot/ga
Every non-immune will stay the same.

fire druid and blizz sorc will still have trouble hitting moving monsters, fire and cold zon have bad teleporting and thus are slower in speed => same as before
fb sorc will be way faster, I'll give you that


I think that whether or not people like the changes that this grand charm brings, I would say that at least the developers are careful enough to make these changes without affecting PVP.
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Sep 18 2022 10:26pm
The charms aren't a terrible idea, but they are in such a terrible state of implimentation that it feels like a mod a high schooler made lol.

Just. . . VERY poorly recolored skins of basic GC gfx? Wtf? Not even enough consideration put into how massive a change these are to at LEAST put some effort into making them look like the game breaking items that they are.

Doesn't work on traps, doesn't work for HYDRA even. For real? Did they even TRY them before putting them to PTR? Were these things coded in just a few hours? Wtf lol

A charm that breakes physical immunity for classes that have next to no options for reducing physical resistances apart from Atma's and maybe Lacerator?

A GC that breaks magic immunity with literally no way to reduce magic immunity further, for builds that are built because basically nothing resists them anyway? Wtf is the point even?

This feels so last minute and unplanned that I wouldn't have dared pushed it to PTR in this state with the expectation that it be implemented a few weeks later in LADDER.

This post was edited by Odesseiron on Sep 18 2022 10:27pm
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Sep 19 2022 12:31pm
Quote (Maiklessdoge @ Sep 18 2022 10:11pm)
I think that whether or not people like the changes that this grand charm brings, I would say that at least the developers are careful enough to make these changes without affecting PVP.


they already broke PVP. Now they are breaking PVM. Oh and bots will tank the market again but in less time.

Quote (Odesseiron @ Sep 18 2022 11:26pm)
The charms aren't a terrible idea, but they are in such a terrible state of implimentation that it feels like a mod a high schooler made lol.

Just. . . VERY poorly recolored skins of basic GC gfx? Wtf? Not even enough consideration put into how massive a change these are to at LEAST put some effort into making them look like the game breaking items that they are.

Doesn't work on traps, doesn't work for HYDRA even. For real? Did they even TRY them before putting them to PTR? Were these things coded in just a few hours? Wtf lol

A charm that breakes physical immunity for classes that have next to no options for reducing physical resistances apart from Atma's and maybe Lacerator?

A GC that breaks magic immunity with literally no way to reduce magic immunity further, for builds that are built because basically nothing resists them anyway? Wtf is the point even?

This feels so last minute and unplanned that I wouldn't have dared pushed it to PTR in this state with the expectation that it be implemented a few weeks later in LADDER.


They coded this shit in a few minutes...
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Sep 20 2022 10:55am
Quote (Bui6Pays40Percent4Wins @ 18 Sep 2022 15:50)
The GCs in particular:
Buff already top end builds such as Java zon and lightning sorc by a lot

Buff super cheap builds that bots primarily use such as blizzard sorc. Making blizzard sorc, which is extremely cheap to gear in early / mid / late ladder, one of, if not the top build overall.

Widen the gap between elemental builds and physical builds, as the physical Gc is next to useless

The GCs do nothing for bad builds, as if you can’t kill a non immune, being able to kill immunes doesn’t matter, such as frost nova or zon elemental arrows

Fire builds simply just needed blizzard to change the maximum value of fire resistance so that players could break fire immunity with infinity

The GCs were so poorly designed they don’t affect traps, further nerfing assassin. Assassin already wasn’t particularly good in pvm and just got comparatively worse. They have systemically super nerfed assassin in both pvm and pvp to the point where sin is so useless that they might as well delete it from the game

Other d2r changes:
WW is still much worse the legacy
They way over buffed zon with dodge/avoid changes
Over buffed necro with bone sprit/spear damage increase
Completely nerfed assassin into the ground due to fhr changes and no wsg
Shared stash increase was so poorly designed that it occasionally deletes items
Auto gold pickup was so poorly designed that you have to walk over it still


Do i really need to go on?


Instead of adding these GCs, all they had to do was normalize the resistance levels of cold and fire to that of lightning across monsters to make builds such as fire builds viable. But because they are completely clueless and don’t know how the game functions, they chose a terrible way, such as these GCs.


Bui is 100% accurate.

This charms is just a poorly work around mixed with an attempt to fulfill the promise of having new items every season, something they failed to fulfill because they focused on these terror zones, which in themselves are an extremely lazy work. There are several modded private servers out there with much better done and complex changes made by individuals alone in a shorter time than 4 months.

Pvm in d2 is totaly face roll for almost all builds, even for a hack n slash game, they don't need to remove the immunities, just adjust them between the elements to make them fairer, to be true just fire imune need be adjusted, cold and light already ok with infinity, physical imune is a joke since you can just add some elemental damage on your melee/bow attacks or buy a magic wand on akara with amp or put amp or decrepfy on your merc, druid wind already do a lot of cold damage with hurricane. Magic imune is totaly joke too, i play pvm with bone necro and when i face a magic imune group just let hire kill one with amp on and than explode everything with corpse explosion, i need to talk about hdin?

Infinity and amplify exist.
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