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#1
Oct 5 2012 07:23pm
Is... that...
It's so vague on what anything does and what affects what...
And since so many skills are bugged, you can't tell what really does what... and what doesn't do what...


A good example of vagueness is:
Weapon damage increases elemental damage based on weapon DPS on certain skills, but in your character screen it represents your damage on an auto attack not the weapon's actual DPS, which means the only way to determine how much damage you do on your skills is based on your weapon's actual DPS in your inventory.. which also means... champions who are casters... with +% damage to skills... are actually better off building melee items with high base weapon DPS with high Critical chance since spells can crit...


Which makes no sense whatsoever!!!!!!!!!

You would think that wands and staves would be best on a caster...

WRONG.



For example, an ideal Embermage weapon is actually:


Yeah... a friggin' claw, with melee stats for the most part.


Why?



Because it has base 15% fcr. Which btw, you require very little of to get really good frames on a spell.
Because it has 10% all damage, which btw affects *ranks with player level on* every skill, as opposed to +% Specified element damage, because you know what? +% elemental damage doesn't work on every skill even though it doesn't specify which skills are affected!...
And because the base elemental damages are multiplied by focus points, which btw, is apparently one of the only stat points in the game that will affect all elemental skills and damages compared to +% elemental damage... and every point of focus adds SO much more damage opposed to vita, which btw you can gain 1600+ hp per gem, making focus the only stat point you want to ever put...



How friggin' confusing is that? Will the game make up it's mind already on what makes sense?





What's more confusing to me is... the damage of the weapon is based on Damage Per Second... but this weapon has 0.48 seconds attack speed, which means the actual base damage is 344? Is that right? Why is the game skills even based on DPS? Every weapon in the game has different actual in game values of how fast it attacks... but why is attacking fast even a factor in how much damage a skill does that's based on it's own cooldown? Does that mean building attack speed on my weapons will increase my DPS on weapon? Which will increase my damage on skills?


HOW VAGUE IS THIS ALL?! WTF...

I can't even grasp any of this...
I'm probably overthinking this by a marginal degree...

/end rant.
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#2
Oct 5 2012 07:25pm
Hahahaha I couldn't agree with you more.

This game has beyond met my expectations of an RPG, but is missing some small technical things like this that right now make zero sense.
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#3
Oct 5 2012 07:34pm

should submit this to runic games maybe they update some of their skill descriptions etc in near future updates

and perhaps some of these messed up game mechanics if youre correct
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#4
Oct 5 2012 08:45pm
one of the many reasons this game will never retain the longevity that D2 or other similar ARPGs have enjoyed.
this is a game for casual players who enjoy the genre not for hardcore players
its fun to play for a time but i gotta say once PoE goes into open beta i will probably uninstall this game and never play it again
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#5
Oct 5 2012 09:00pm
The thing i hate most is when I am in a boss fight for 99% of it then happen to die and some other asshole kills the boss while I am trying to come back in and don't get shit for drops.

:wallbash:
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#6
Oct 5 2012 09:02pm
Quote (Da5id1an @ Oct 5 2012 10:45pm)
one of the many reasons this game will never retain the longevity that D2 or other similar ARPGs have enjoyed.
this is a game for casual players who enjoy the genre not for hardcore players
its fun to play for a time but i gotta say once PoE goes into open beta i will probably uninstall this game and never play it again


Poe is fun too!
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#7
Oct 5 2012 09:11pm
Quote (Da5id1an @ 5 Oct 2012 18:45)
one of the many reasons this game will never retain the longevity that D2 or other similar ARPGs have enjoyed.
this is a game for casual players who enjoy the genre not for hardcore players
its fun to play for a time but i gotta say once PoE goes into open beta i will probably uninstall this game and never play it again


cuz POE sucks

This post was edited by Bosu on Oct 5 2012 09:11pm
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#8
Oct 5 2012 10:29pm
Quote (Da5id1an @ Oct 5 2012 06:45pm)
one of the many reasons this game will never retain the longevity that D2 or other similar ARPGs have enjoyed.
this is a game for casual players who enjoy the genre not for hardcore players
its fun to play for a time but i gotta say once PoE goes into open beta i will probably uninstall this game and never play it again


The game does have depth... and a lot of longevity (IF Runic decides they have the funds for a closed server I mean)...
It's a lot like D2 in many ways... Much more than you think actually...



When D2 first came out, the game was very oriented around kiting and around the small limited builds that it had.
Essentially, every barb had a Grand Father/Shield and was WW. Every Zon was Bow or Jab, Sorceresses were Frozen Orb, and Paladins... well you just didn't play them cause they sucked.

Looking at TL2, every Embermage is a Prismatic, every Engineer is a Fire/Forcefield, every Outlander is a Glave, and Berzerker... well... nobody really plays them since they suck in NG++++.
And you play by kiting mobs.

See a trend?






Then a huge thing happened... the LoD expansion came out, and it gave way to new classes and new items.
Synergy was introduced way later as well as Rune words.

The shift allowed for players to essentially build extremely high damage builds with high survivability, closing the gap between unoptimized builds and opening passage to strategy in PVP and depth in optimization.

Just look at the paladin for example.
Smite used to be THE WORST skill in the game.

Welcome Grief Runeword.
HELLO PUB SMASHING MONSTER MADE WITH MAYBE 15 HIGH RUNES.





TL2 has similar constraints, 132 skill points, limitation of tiers, and optimization.
However, there isn't enough diversity in items or synergy of skills to decide in a different build.
Essentially because... you can't...

You can't build a 2-H uber crit chance/crit damage/super attack speed Berzerker... because you will get 1 shot by a purple mob and die instantly.
You can't build a Melee Staff based Embermage... again because you will get 1 shot by a regular mob and die instantly.



There isn't enough mitigation and survivability to create the options for variety or depth... simply because the game doesn't have the diversity in items or skills to allow the character to succeed.
On top of which, there are WAY TOO MANY repeat skills and repetitive skills in the game.


Look at D2 before synergies. You NEVER got teeth in pvp because you could just get more damage from Bone Spirit and Bone Spear.
Now you have to because teeth increases your overall bone damage and it is developed as a soft counter to Wind Druids via massive spam/kite.
Especially so now since the damage is actually good...


In TL2 literally 2 of 3 skills are a repeat...



And let's not talk about TL2 PVP... where there's literally no PVP penalty... one hit kills anyone?

The only reason why D2 essentially surpassed the test of time, was because of the item diversity and the possibility of unique builds with constraints.
As well as the very open availability of items.










What TL2 needs to do to become long standing is:


1. Closed Realm.
No brainer, But since Runic is a small company, it may not be feasible at all..


2. More items that opens up build diversity.
Every item and choice is so monotonous. You pretty much build up lots of damage to do more damage to do more damage to damage damages. Just damage damage.
Oh, and socket every equip with life gems/crit %, and damage % reduction if you are more melee oriented.

3. Synergy with skills.
Wouldn't it be neat if the Engineer's Ember Reach (nobody uses it, it draws mobs into you and stun chance based on amount of charge), instead, drew monsters in, caused debuffs to electricity on targets, and then you used Overload to explode all the monsters away from you for massive damage? It would even be cool to have an armor debuff on it as well... Imagine someone trying to run away in pvp, and you're like nope, GET OVER HERE! Then you apply your deeps.
Wouldn't it be superbly be awesome if you gained global bonuses from putting 15/15 into a skill? For example 1 point wonders like Embermage's Phase Shift. Tier 1 adds 15% reduced damage passive, Tier 2 Adds 20% reduced damage passive, Tier 3 adds 25% reduced damage passive? (Staff melee Embermage anyone?), but doing so causes players to migrate towards actually investing skill points into it, maybe even getting tier 1 or tier 2.
I mean look at friggin' Onslaught's Tier bonuses.... mana reduction?... REALLY?... I'm going to 1 point that thing if I really wanted to save skill points... Look at Emberquake.... if that passive was global... holy cow... I'd be playing a Fire Bash Engineer all day...


4. Fixing the damn bugs...
Honestly... there are way too many to count... I even have glitches and bugs with characters I don't even play or haven't put a lot of time into playing... I can't even imagine the problems they potentially have....






I would bring this up and put it on Runic's Forum... but who really reads them anyway?
Everyone is way into modding their game to give a cow about the actual game or solidifying the main experience.






MORE HUGE SWORDS PLS! YEAH HAX IT UP.







Ugh... so much potential wasted Runic... Why?...

This post was edited by Red2Blue on Oct 5 2012 10:46pm
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#9
Oct 5 2012 10:51pm
I don't get what you mean vague.

Weapon's have a base damage which in your weapon are the physical + elemental damages added. DPS is DPS which is the average damage the weapon does over time. Some skills scale off weapon damage, some scale of weapon DPS, some don't scale with any weapon which they say right in the tooltips.

Strength adds to all weapon damage including elementals applied to your weapon as well as increasing crit damage. Focus adds to magic damage and all skills that are not minions (eg spider mines, brute, etc). So if you have a skill thats based off weapon damage you could increase both strength and focus to add up damage. Press J, and click the plus sign to see your damn right hand DPS. You can even try to min/max this by graphing crit chance vs strength's crit damage buff vs. focus damage that adds up to the skill. Hell that weapon you showed might not even be the best because it has physical and low elemental output weakening the effect of pumping focus for a dps related skill.

There's really nothing vague about that unless you can't go from a -> b -> c
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#10
Oct 5 2012 10:54pm
Quote (ORLYYARLY @ Oct 5 2012 09:51pm)
I don't get what you mean vague.

Weapon's have a base damage which in your weapon are the physical + elemental damages added. DPS is DPS which is the average damage the weapon does over time. Some skills scale off weapon damage, some scale of weapon DPS, some don't scale with any weapon which they say right in the tooltips.

Strength adds to all weapon damage including elementals applied to your weapon as well as increasing crit damage. Focus adds to magic damage and all skills that are not minions (eg spider mines, brute, etc). So if you have a skill thats based off weapon damage you could increase both strength and focus to add up damage. Press J, and click the plus sign to see your damn right hand DPS. You can even try to min/max this by graphing crit chance vs strength's crit damage buff vs. focus damage that adds up to the skill. Hell that weapon you showed might not even be the best because it has physical and low elemental output weakening the effect of pumping focus for a dps related skill.

There's really nothing vague about that unless you can't go from a -> b -> c


oh, really

e- comment on my engineer build on the previous thread i posted on please:)

This post was edited by 1vs1 on Oct 5 2012 10:55pm
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