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Oct 5 2012 11:08pm
Quote (ORLYYARLY @ Oct 5 2012 08:51pm)
I don't get what you mean vague.

Weapon's have a base damage which in your weapon are the physical + elemental damages added. DPS is DPS which is the average damage the weapon does over time. Some skills scale off weapon damage, some scale of weapon DPS, some don't scale with any weapon which they say right in the tooltips.

Strength adds to all weapon damage including elementals applied to your weapon as well as increasing crit damage. Focus adds to magic damage and all skills that are not minions (eg spider mines, brute, etc). So if you have a skill thats based off weapon damage you could increase both strength and focus to add up damage. Press J, and click the plus sign to see your damn right hand DPS. You can even try to min/max this by graphing crit chance vs strength's crit damage buff vs. focus damage that adds up to the skill. Hell that weapon you showed might not even be the best because it has physical and low elemental output weakening the effect of pumping focus for a dps related skill.

There's really nothing vague about that unless you can't go from a -> b -> c

But sir, you have fallen prey to vagueness.

Essentially speaking...

Str adds weapon damage. Correct. It buffs damage.
Focus adds elemental damage % buff. Correct. It buffs elemental damage.


Let's say you are an engineer... equipped with a 1000 DPS Hammer.
You take the skill Flame Hammer at rank 1.

Ok good. The skill does 68% weapon dps.
Good.

Means at level 1, with a 1000 damage Hammer using Flame hammer, you do 680x4 damage with flame hammer (excluding the burn damage).
GREAT!

Now. Let's put 500 points into str.

You would think you would do more damage right?

WRONG.

You cast Flame Hammer and you do exactly 680x4 damage.

Why?


Because strength does not increase your weapon DPS.


That is flat out vague as FUG.


Your weapon DPS. is your weapon DPS. IS YOUR WEAPON DPS... which is 1000 in this case.


However. If you put 500 points into focus.

You will do massive damage on your burn since it's modified by focus.
Sadly nowhere online or even in the game itself does it tell you how much burn damage it is. Or how it is calculated.
At least I haven't been able to find out.


Vague? YES...

You sir, are explaining what you are given.
You are not explaining anything about interaction with the game itself...

And that sir... is extremely vague as FUG.



However, if you did put all your points into STR, you can go ahead and auto attack like a boss since you will do more physical damage on auto attacks.
And get nuked by every monster in the game...
Something like that...



Edit: Before you say it....


No sir, there isn't a single skill in the game that works off the "Weapon Damage" modifier in the character display.
Unless you count 'Auto Attack' as a skill.



See what I mean by vague?


This post was edited by Red2Blue on Oct 5 2012 11:19pm
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Oct 5 2012 11:24pm
I get what you mean., and if it does go off how you say, then yeah, it's vague. But I could have sworn I had emberquake buff up testing it with strength when I was trying out skills to start making an engineer. I might have to try this out again, because when I was combat logging I remember things going off of the arcane statistics page. Maybe thats dependent on skills and then it would be even more vague
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Oct 5 2012 11:25pm
This thread is dumb because someone doesn't understand elemental damages. Fuck, my sides.png
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Oct 5 2012 11:31pm
Quote (mercsan @ Oct 5 2012 09:25pm)
This thread is dumb because someone doesn't understand elemental damages. Fuck, my sides.png


Instead of bashing, try enlightening.


What do you mean I don't understand it.
Care to share?




Quote (ORLYYARLY @ Oct 5 2012 09:24pm)
I get what you mean., and if it does go off how you say, then yeah, it's vague. But I could have sworn I had emberquake buff up testing it with strength when I was trying out skills to start making an engineer. I might have to try this out again, because when I was combat logging I remember things going off of the arcane statistics page. Maybe thats dependent on skills and then it would be even more vague


Sorry I was mistaken, STR does increase it.

But the modifiers in your character screen do not reflect your damage since it adds and multiplies elemental damage in the screen as well and still reflective of your auto attack damage.
To calculate weapon DPS, I would assume it's the modifier when hovered % into your weapon's DPS.


This post was edited by Red2Blue on Oct 5 2012 11:59pm
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Oct 6 2012 12:13am
Just did a quick test without the log



Kinda a bad image cause I was never able to screenshot the impact damage. But it was doing roughly 300 which is inline with doing .68*159 + variance in 152-304 physical damage a hit. This is with 1000 strength, and it shows large improvement. So this is definitely min/max-able if you know you're endgame items.
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Oct 6 2012 12:17am
Quote (ORLYYARLY @ Oct 5 2012 10:13pm)
Just did a quick test without the log

http://i.imgur.com/hofa1.jpg

Kinda a bad image cause I was never able to screenshot the impact damage. But it was doing roughly 300 which is inline with doing .68*159 + variance in 152-304 physical damage a hit. This is with 1000 strength, and it shows large improvement. So this is definitely min/max-able if you know you're endgame items.


Yeah here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vireQWmTjbs&feature=plcp



I guess I just need to read up some more.
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Oct 6 2012 01:05am
Quote (Red2Blue @ Oct 5 2012 09:29pm)
The game does have depth... and a lot of longevity (IF Runic decides they have the funds for a closed server I mean)...
It's a lot like D2 in many ways... Much more than you think actually...



When D2 first came out, the game was very oriented around kiting and around the small limited builds that it had.
Essentially, every barb had a Grand Father/Shield and was WW. Every Zon was Bow or Jab, Sorceresses were Frozen Orb, and Paladins... well you just didn't play them cause they sucked.

Looking at TL2, every Embermage is a Prismatic, every Engineer is a Fire/Forcefield, every Outlander is a Glave, and Berzerker... well... nobody really plays them since they suck in NG++++.
And you play by kiting mobs.

See a trend?






Then a huge thing happened... the LoD expansion came out, and it gave way to new classes and new items.
Synergy was introduced way later as well as Rune words.

The shift allowed for players to essentially build extremely high damage builds with high survivability, closing the gap between unoptimized builds and opening passage to strategy in PVP and depth in optimization.

Just look at the paladin for example.
Smite used to be THE WORST skill in the game.

Welcome Grief Runeword.
HELLO PUB SMASHING MONSTER MADE WITH MAYBE 15 HIGH RUNES.





TL2 has similar constraints, 132 skill points, limitation of tiers, and optimization.
However, there isn't enough diversity in items or synergy of skills to decide in a different build.
Essentially because... you can't...

You can't build a 2-H uber crit chance/crit damage/super attack speed Berzerker... because you will get 1 shot by a purple mob and die instantly.
You can't build a Melee Staff based Embermage... again because you will get 1 shot by a regular mob and die instantly.



There isn't enough mitigation and survivability to create the options for variety or depth... simply because the game doesn't have the diversity in items or skills to allow the character to succeed. 
On top of which, there are WAY TOO MANY repeat skills and repetitive skills in the game.


Look at D2 before synergies. You NEVER got teeth in pvp because you could just get more damage from Bone Spirit and Bone Spear.
Now you have to because teeth increases your overall bone damage and it is developed as a soft counter to Wind Druids via massive spam/kite.
Especially so now since the damage is actually good...


In TL2 literally 2 of 3 skills are a repeat...



And let's not talk about TL2 PVP... where there's literally no PVP penalty... one hit kills anyone?

The only reason why D2 essentially surpassed the test of time, was because of the item diversity and the possibility of unique builds with constraints.
As well as the very open availability of items.










What TL2 needs to do to become long standing is:


1. Closed Realm.
No brainer, But since Runic is a small company, it may not be feasible at all..


2. More items that opens up build diversity.
Every item and choice is so monotonous. You pretty much build up lots of damage to do more damage to do more damage to damage damages. Just damage damage.
Oh, and socket every equip with life gems/crit %,  and damage % reduction if you are more melee oriented.

3. Synergy with skills.
Wouldn't it be neat if the Engineer's Ember Reach (nobody uses it, it draws mobs into you and stun chance based on amount of charge), instead, drew monsters in, caused debuffs to electricity on targets, and then you used Overload to explode all the monsters away from you for massive damage? It would even be cool to have an armor debuff on it as well... Imagine someone trying to run away in pvp, and you're like nope, GET OVER HERE! Then you apply your deeps.
Wouldn't it be superbly be awesome if you gained global bonuses from putting 15/15 into a skill? For example 1 point wonders like Embermage's Phase Shift. Tier 1 adds 15% reduced damage passive, Tier 2 Adds 20% reduced damage passive, Tier 3 adds 25% reduced damage passive? (Staff melee Embermage anyone?), but doing so causes players to migrate towards actually investing skill points into it, maybe even getting tier 1 or tier 2.
I mean look at friggin' Onslaught's Tier bonuses.... mana reduction?... REALLY?... I'm going to 1 point that thing if I really wanted to save skill points... Look at Emberquake.... if that passive was global... holy cow... I'd be playing a Fire Bash Engineer all day...


4. Fixing the damn bugs...
Honestly... there are way too many to count... I even have glitches and bugs with characters I don't even play or haven't put a lot of time into playing... I can't even imagine the problems they potentially have....






I would bring this up and put it on Runic's Forum... but who really reads them anyway?
Everyone is way into modding their game to give a cow about the actual game or solidifying the main experience.






MORE HUGE SWORDS PLS! YEAH HAX IT UP.







Ugh... so much potential wasted Runic... Why?...



runic has made it clear that they have no interest in supporting closed servers
if players want that environment they have to do it themselves ive already posted and been banned on runic forums for talking about this too much
and shit talking ignorant people who insist that the only purpose of closed servers is so people can make $$ off the game farming gold like in D3
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Oct 6 2012 05:50am
tl;dr
d3 makes less sense than TL2.....stop ranting.
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