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Nov 22 2016 12:43pm
Quote (zarkadon @ Nov 22 2016 12:25am)
People will often focus on goals and translate that into dominance, which is why the players in the first group I mentioned in my previous post will often get more credit, but guys like Zidane or Cruyff absolutely dominated thabks to their intelligence, as they made their teams so much better.

Zidane was an absolute monster in big games. He was very dominant despite not having the flashiness of players like Maradona.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Q2Tyw_PXM

This is him in the biggest stage of them all, the WC final. It's amazing how every little detail is just pure class. This is easily the best ever performance in a WC final.


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Nov 22 2016 01:14pm
Quote (zarkadon @ Nov 22 2016 01:25am)
People will often focus on goals and translate that into dominance, which is why the players in the first group I mentioned in my previous post will often get more credit, but guys like Zidane or Cruyff absolutely dominated thabks to their intelligence, as they made their teams so much better.

Zidane was an absolute monster in big games. He was very dominant despite not having the flashiness of players like Maradona.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Q2Tyw_PXM

This is him in the biggest stage of them all, the WC final. It's amazing how every little detail is just pure class. This is easily the best ever performance in a WC final.


This.. some players don't have the most goals or assists but the way they dictate the tempo and just control the flow of the game is significant. As a United fan, there is a big difference in the general build up and passing with Scholes than it is with Carrick or Pogba for example, you can just see the void which hasn't been replaced ever since he retired.

Exceptional players can make a difference any moment with a single touch or pass, Zidane is a prime example, and for that reason he is my all-time favourite :hail:
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Nov 22 2016 01:24pm
Quote (Depay @ Nov 22 2016 03:14pm)
This.. some players don't have the most goals or assists but the way they dictate the tempo and just control the flow of the game is significant. As a United fan, there is a big difference in the general build up and passing with Scholes than it is with Carrick or Pogba for example, you can just see the void which hasn't been replaced ever since he retired.

Exceptional players can make a difference any moment with a single touch or pass, Zidane is a prime example, and for that reason he is my all-time favourite :hail:



He is your "favorite" just like drogba is my favorite. But neither of them are the "best" ever
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Nov 22 2016 01:46pm
Quote (chelsea11 @ Nov 22 2016 09:24pm)
He is your "favorite" just like drogba is my favorite. But neither of them are the "best" ever


Everyone has different opinions and views, some are more or less biased.
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Nov 22 2016 04:56pm
Quote (zarkadon @ 22 Nov 2016 19:45)
What do you mean by talent though?

Is it ball control? Flashy skills? Dribbling? Passing/crossing abilities?

Are these more important than the ability to read the game or to finish a chance? Was Bergkamp a better striker than Gerd Müller?

I think Messi is a very complete player and excels in many of these areas. I think there have been players with better ball control, others with better passing skills, etc, but Messi makes up for that by being very well rounded... the most well rounded over all? idk, Cruyff and Di Stefano, for example, excelled in many areas as well, but it's very hard to draw a precise head to head comparison with skill with players from different generations. That is why I focus more on decisiveness and achievements. There is one thing though where I think Messi is the best ever (along with Maradona), and that is dribbling in small spaces. Both of them are imo far better than any other player I've seen.


Messi is the best at taking opponents directly, heading towards goal. Ronaldo used to do some impressive flashy dribblings, but usually in meh areas. Messi gets the ball and always heads towards goal (and towards the defender too, he even admitted he likes to do that, 1v1 directly). At this chapter he remains unbeaten. Sprint with ball at his foot is another area where he's best. He can touch the ball in 5m 15 times, excellent control. Both when running or holding it in small spaces. And the acceleration, the 10m sprint. Only Ronaldo9 i can mention as a competitor here. Even when a bit fat for Rael he used to lose defenders by his 10m sprint.
There are a lot to be added here, vision/passing range and overalll movement off the ball (No, not defending, attacking wise).

Flashy things, Ronaldo was far better in his Utd days (now he cant dribble a standing guy imo). Maradona also better, Ronaldo + Ronaldinho and even Zidane probably better.
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Nov 23 2016 06:21pm
Quote (zarkadon @ Nov 22 2016 12:45pm)
What do you mean by talent though?

Is it ball control? Flashy skills? Dribbling? Passing/crossing abilities?

Are these more important than the ability to read the game or to finish a chance? Was Bergkamp a better striker than Gerd Müller?

I think Messi is a very complete player and excels in many of these areas. I think there have been players with better ball control, others with better passing skills, etc, but Messi makes up for that by being very well rounded... the most well rounded over all? idk, Cruyff and Di Stefano, for example, excelled in many areas as well, but it's very hard to draw a precise head to head comparison with skill with players from different generations. That is why I focus more on decisiveness and achievements. There is one thing though where I think Messi is the best ever (along with Maradona), and that is dribbling in small spaces. Both of them are imo far better than any other player I've seen.


Very well put brother zark, I get where you're coming from.

In terms of talent, I mean ability and that means just about everything- dribbling, passing, shooting.

In an attacking aspect, Messi is the best player I've ever seen play (of course this is just my opinion) and it is precisely for the reason you pointed out, I really admire his dribbling. His ability to change direction/change of pace is second to no one.
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