Gay

Stop trolling lol

Pele, Maradona, Zidane & Ronaldo are the football Mount Rushmore

Ronaldo and Messi have been brilliant, with Ronaldo slightly edging it, but neither get into that category. Messi has been invisible in 4 finals, he's been given ample opportunity but outside of a system perfectly suited to him he struggles, the other 4 I mentioned stepped up numerous times

This post was edited by Marieusz on Nov 21 2016 08:42am

You don't think Leo is the GOAT, main man zark? I thought it was indisputable at this point to be honest
His lack of work rate at this point of his career is concerning though

Messi>/=Ronaldo>(Ronaldinho)>Maradona
Finished. Period. All shhhh

If he ever carries Argentina to the WC I'll reconsider, but until then I don't think he can compare to the best.

It's not that I think winning the WC should be absolutely mandatory to be considered the GOAT, but when someone like Maradona wins it with a weaker argentinian generation and also carries a mediocre Napoli to two Scudetti during Serie A's golden years (imo there has never bean a league as competitive as Serie A was back then), Messi will imo really need to do something more than dominate with the world strongest team of his generation.

He really needs to step his national team performances. Yes, he does well and he's probably the player that performs best on average (besides Mascherano perhaps, but that's a different role), but he doesn't carry them. Him being the best on the team is expected because he is the best player they have, but the greatest players can carry them. Maradona did so in the 1986 WC. Di Stefano also did that in the 1947 Copa América (scoring 6 goals in the tournament, which was the only time he played for Argentina). Messi has better team mates than them, so there really is little excuse for him not to shine more.

What more can he do? I also think you're grossly overrating the Argentinian team, particularly the management and the very lackluster midfield.

Then you have players that severely underachieve, even more so than Messi, in Higuain, Di Maria, even Aguero looks fairly ordinary in an Argentina shirt. Players like Icardi don't get called because of their personality (justified), and Dybala is only now getting his chances.
Not to mention, in 2014 they have very good chances to win against Germany. But can you really say Messi didn't lead them?

I think the Argentine federation is in shambles. For me, Messi is the most talented to ever play. With that being said, his recent form isn't that impressive, he's not covering much ground on the field anymore. He doesn't play with the tempo he used to.

Personally, I feel its difficult to compare players from different eras so I won't discuss things like Maradona's Napoli, which in its own is amazing and impressive but even if Leo isn't the GOAT in your eyes, he's among them

Agreed, also remember, he doesn't even need to carry the team, or even be a leader, that Argentina team has ridiculous amounts of talent and they reached the World Cup final and 3 Copa America finals, he has had so much opportunity to make his mark and he was invisible in all of them. Those games were so tight and were crying out for a magical moment from an individual player to seal the win.

The other legends all took over in that moment and stamped their authority

The most talented to ever play are Pele, Maradona, Zidane & Ronaldo

Ronaldo and Messi get high stats, but we should also factor for the shift in how football is played and the generational difference, the same argument people use against Pele

Why are you being so stupid? It's much harder to "carry" in this era than it was way back...

Nobody is as good as Ronaldo and Messi. The closest one is Maradona.

This post was edited by chelsea11 on Nov 21 2016 01:59pm

kbk is right here, sorry zarky.

I'm aware that his argentinian team mates are underachieving as well. All of them, Messi included, are stepping down their performances when on national duty... if Messi stands out for them and performs the best in that swarm of lackluster performances, it is only natural as he is the best player in the team. I agree the management isn't outstanding, but the people appointed for the job aren't really no-marks either... even if they aren't well known in Europe, they are generally managers that have achieved success in South America. The FA though... yeah, that's a mess and Grondona really needs to go... although tbf there is always an insane amount of pressure and chaos surrounding the AFA. Back in the 50s they withdrew from 2 WCs basicly out of fear of people rioting if Brazil did better than them. The pressure and chaos has always been there and will probably always be.

"Leading" the team by scoring against teams like Serbia, Iran, Nigeria, Bosnia, Panama, Ecuador, Venezuela, USA and a pk against Paraguay (these are all the teams he has ever scored against in WCs or Copa Américas) isn't really relvant if he isn't there in the semis and finals against more serious opposition.

All of the players considered to be among the GOATs have shined in the decisive games and carried their team in those decisive moments. Even if he doesn't win it (like Cruyff for example), he should be at least shining and giving his all in the decisive moments, not going on invisible mode like he did in the second half of the last WC.

While I do think he's the best of his generation, to be the best ever you need an extra edge. I think he should start by stepping down from being the national captain as that would relive the pressure and also because, let's be honest, even though he's an outstanding player he's an awful captain and it's really not a role that's good for him.

This post was edited by zarkadon on Nov 21 2016 03:30pm