Quote (Mr_Mill @ Jun 10 2018 03:04pm)

I'm not going to judge the players on what they do on their lives outside of football, but this just wasn't a smart thing to do.
I'm not 100% up to date with Erdogan and Turkey so I can't and won't judge, but it's easy to just not take a picture or not go there and let your feet do the talking on the pitch.

Quote (DoWN_DeaTH @ Jun 10 2018 03:03pm)

There's a difference imo. Balotelli is and feels italians. Ozil and Gundogan don't, they're more Turks tha Germans. Wouldn't mind not seeing them anymore despite them being awrsome players. National teams should be for Germans, feeling German and not Turkboys who are jjst born in Germany

Quote (DoWN_DeaTH @ Jun 10 2018 04:03pm)

There's a difference imo. Balotelli is and feels italians. Ozil and Gundogan don't, they're more Turks tha Germans. Wouldn't mind not seeing them anymore despite them being awrsome players. National teams should be for Germans, feeling German and not Turkboys who are jjst born in Germany

Quote (googh @ 10 Jun 2018 14:34)

this. who actually cares racism is rising again not talking about germany but in football.
if you care about fair play and political issues there should be a collective boycott since decades to tha world cup (obv talking about fifa here).
And there is no real excuse for the booing you will see more than 5/10 ppl flaming him in a racist way (gündogan) aswell inb4 ppl hate on germany they should watch italian ppl throwing bananas on balotelli etc aswell :S

Quote (DoWN_DeaTH @ 10 Jun 2018 15:03)

There's a difference imo. Balotelli is and feels italians. Ozil and Gundogan don't, they're more Turks tha Germans. Wouldn't mind not seeing them anymore despite them being awrsome players. National teams should be for Germans, feeling German and not Turkboys who are jjst born in Germany

Quote (abumalek @ 10 Jun 2018 15:17)

As i said typical nazis
when germanys team was shit all here said we need this players like the özils boatengs... in our team, born and raised in germany blabla

Now we won the wc and the typical germans like you ampoo fender are crying about turks

Just laughable

Please just shut up

Quote (fender @ Jun 10 2018 03:37pm)

while there undoubtedly still ARE some bigoted and racist football fans, even here in germany, where it generally isn't a big issue anymore, it's just completely idiotic and ignorant to dismiss the boos against him and özil as 'racism'. that's a really lazy excuse from people trying to defend him, or people trying to make this about something it's clearly not.

if racism really was the reason, why didn't they get booed earlier? why are khedira / boateng / rüdiger / can not treated that way? seriously, that 'argument' doesn't even begin to make sense.

no, this is clearly about his support for erdogan, a fundamentalist autocrat who is turning turkey into a dictatorship, while trying to get support from turks living abroad - who are ironically using the freedoms their countries of choice provide them to endorse someone who is taking the same freedoms away from people in turkey.
fans are letting them know that they disagree, and i completely understand why they are upset. sure, you could make the argument that a player's politics are his private issue, but they CHOSE to make it public, using their popularity to endorse that scumbag. also, given how they were the poster children of successful immigration and integration in germany, there already was a special focus on them, additional to the role model function professional athletes have anyway.


____________________________________________________

then again, reading something like this:



sure makes it somewhat understandable how people could jump to conclusions and simply assume it's a racial issue. not exactly sure about gündogan (although fact is that he doesn't even have a turkish passport, and that he sings our anthem pregame, which for some of the 'the national team is just for REAL germans' crowd seems to be incredibly important), but i know that özil always openly said there were two hearts beating in his chest, which is somewhat understandable being a child of immigrants. in his biography he wrote about that, about the pressure from his family (mother & uncle wanted him to play for turkey, his father insisted that since he was born, raised, and trained in germany, he should play here as well). that being said though, they both made concious decisions for germany, and the mere fact that they grew up with a love for two countries should in MY opinion not disqualify them from out national team.
however, where i make a distinction is having love for a country your ancestors came from (and part of your family still lives in) on the one side, and using your popularity to publicly supporting a politician (especially a textbook autocrat like erdogan).



you clearly don't have the slightest clue about my political opinion, otherwise you wouldn't put me into the same drawer as poo for example. i don't know if you're an erdogan supporter trying to play the 'racism' card in order to deflect from his atrocities as well, but if you're not, you should apply a little more nuance before dismissing people that arrogantly.

Quote (fender @ Jun 10 2018 04:37pm)

while there undoubtedly still ARE some bigoted and racist football fans, even here in germany, where it generally isn't a big issue anymore, it's just completely idiotic and ignorant to dismiss the boos against him and özil as 'racism'. that's a really lazy excuse from people trying to defend him, or people trying to make this about something it's clearly not.

if racism really was the reason, why didn't they get booed earlier? why are khedira / boateng / rüdiger / can not treated that way? seriously, that 'argument' doesn't even begin to make sense.

no, this is clearly about his support for erdogan, a fundamentalist autocrat who is turning turkey into a dictatorship, while trying to get support from turks living abroad - who are ironically using the freedoms their countries of choice provide them to endorse someone who is taking the same freedoms away from people in turkey.
fans are letting them know that they disagree, and i completely understand why they are upset. sure, you could make the argument that a player's politics are his private issue, but they CHOSE to make it public, using their popularity to endorse that scumbag. also, given how they were the poster children of successful immigration and integration in germany, there already was a special focus on them, additional to the role model function professional athletes have anyway.


____________________________________________________

then again, reading something like this:



sure makes it somewhat understandable how people could jump to conclusions and simply assume it's a racial issue. not exactly sure about gündogan (although fact is that he doesn't even have a turkish passport, and that he sings our anthem pregame, which for some of the 'the national team is just for REAL germans' crowd seems to be incredibly important), but i know that özil always openly said there were two hearts beating in his chest, which is somewhat understandable being a child of immigrants. in his biography he wrote about that, about the pressure from his family (mother & uncle wanted him to play for turkey, his father insisted that since he was born, raised, and trained in germany, he should play here as well). that being said though, they both made concious decisions for germany, and the mere fact that they grew up with a love for two countries should in MY opinion not disqualify them from out national team.
however, where i make a distinction is having love for a country your ancestors came from (and part of your family still lives in) on the one side, and using your popularity to publicly supporting a politician (especially a textbook autocrat like erdogan).



you clearly don't have the slightest clue about my political opinion, otherwise you wouldn't put me into the same drawer as poo for example. i don't know if you're an erdogan supporter trying to play the 'racism' card in order to deflect from his atrocities as well, but if you're not, you should apply a little more nuance before dismissing people that arrogantly.

Quote (googh @ Jun 10 2018 03:15pm)

Why should you judge ? arsenal.... i m not an insider of premier club culture but isnt mesut considered as a synonym for loyality in ur club ? Dont forget he is a german with turkish roots .... got family in london hotsupurs arsenal and manu fans (big family xd)



Well in germany you can have double passes french/german turkish/german stuff like german/pakistani is not possible. He did not hold the hand of a dictator and made weapon deals in the other like our government does with saudi arabia (where are the ppl shouting @?).
It is just racism not more ^^ ("ölauge")
and how you dare judging like this even ?.... go play for the german squad win world cups then you can talk like this. He did more for the country than you might ever do. And now imagine he is turkish and not german your emotional logic is rly flawless (nuri sahin did not decide for germany but both of them did thats just straight up a fact) and not an assumption "he feels more turkish"

Quote (abumalek @ 10 Jun 2018 15:43)

no i dont care about turkey or erdogan but u seems to be a typical „medien opfer“

They did it with lybia iraq and now with trukey just open ur eyes

Quote (Mr_Mill @ Jun 10 2018 03:44pm)

No not really, yes he signed his contract but he's no Adams..

Quote (fender @ Jun 10 2018 03:37pm)

while there undoubtedly still ARE some bigoted and racist football fans, even here in germany, where it generally isn't a big issue anymore, it's just completely idiotic and ignorant to dismiss the boos against him and özil as 'racism'. that's a really lazy excuse from people trying to defend him, or people trying to make this about something it's clearly not.

if racism really was the reason, why didn't they get booed earlier? why are khedira / boateng / rüdiger / can not treated that way? seriously, that 'argument' doesn't even begin to make sense.

no, this is clearly about his support for erdogan, a fundamentalist autocrat who is turning turkey into a dictatorship, while trying to get support from turks living abroad - who are ironically using the freedoms their countries of choice provide them to endorse someone who is taking the same freedoms away from people in turkey.
fans are letting them know that they disagree, and i completely understand why they are upset. sure, you could make the argument that a player's politics are his private issue, but they CHOSE to make it public, using their popularity to endorse that scumbag. also, given how they were the poster children of successful immigration and integration in germany, there already was a special focus on them, additional to the role model function professional athletes have anyway.

Quote (fender @ Jun 10 2018 04:06pm)

bullshit.the boos did not suddenly appear when there was a lack of success - they emerged after he showed public support for a dictator. stop making things up.

also, while i agree that merkel's attitude towards erdogan (or any issue for that matter) isn't exactly principled, but rather pragmatic, you'd have to be daft to compare a meeting between two leaders of nations (a political, economic, and diplomatic necessity) to a completely optional and voluntary show of support from an athlete towards a political leader. and speaking of 'asslicking': i'm pretty sure merkel did NOT call him 'my honoured president, respectfully'...

Quote (googh @ 10 Jun 2018 15:55)

does adams have the quality of özil ? Henry left ur club when you were not winning anything so far i remember right.... alexis did aswell mesut did not and he came from real madrid beginning squad mby it is just the opinion of my family club supporters ... my bad sorry i thought it would represent the feeling of a bigger part




Bcos it is easy as long you do everything right and have success you are german but when you can differ doing stuff like beating ur wife (random example) you are a "filthy migrant"
Racism has his own facettes. Talking to putin makes you a "putin versteher". Merkel was at a meeting for hours licking the ass of erdogan but you wont doubt her dignity. I hope you get my point after all. They are germans who decided to play for the german squad.
Racism can be hided behind facettes like religions aswell just be careful mate