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Jul 25 2021 03:26pm
knew virtanen was a bust when he played for canada at the wjc and looked like he didnt give 2 fucks
normally guys are willing to dive face first to block a shot for their country and he was the total opposite and he coulda played for finland iirc so he chose to play on canada and still gave zero fucks

he does have some skill and potential but the work ethic is a slap in the face.. not even its more like a kick in the nuts

This post was edited by dragoneth on Jul 25 2021 03:28pm
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Jul 27 2021 05:55am
Schmidt nixed a deal to the Jets, apparently Jets made multiple attempts lol. I wonder what the offer was. I don't blame him not wanting to live there.

I think he will be good with OEL.
The problem is, are the Canucks gonna rock with this backend? :rofl:

OEL - schmidt
Hughes - Schenn
Rathbone - myers
Juolevi

Brad shaw will literally be a God if he make magic out if this

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Jul 27 2021 10:35am
Quote (Secksii @ Jul 27 2021 04:55am)
Schmidt nixed a deal to the Jets, apparently Jets made multiple attempts lol. I wonder what the offer was. I don't blame him not wanting to live there.

I think he will be good with OEL.
The problem is, are the Canucks gonna rock with this backend? :rofl:

OEL - schmidt
Hughes - Schenn
Rathbone - myers
Juolevi

Brad shaw will literally be a God if he make magic out if this


God can't believe Benning actually shopped Schmidt while acquiring OEL. What's his problem...

In other news, Holtby bought out to no one's surprise. I preached far and wide that 2nd year was horrible, and I hate to have been prophetic.

This post was edited by Hizkuntza on Jul 27 2021 10:35am
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Jul 27 2021 10:38am
Quote (Hizkuntza @ 27 Jul 2021 09:35)
God can't believe Benning actually shopped Schmidt while acquiring OEL. What's his problem...

In other news, Holtby bought out to no one's surprise. I preached far and wide that 2nd year was horrible, and I hate to have been prophetic.


I don't think he shopped him, once the rumors came out that he wasn't happy in Vancouver, a lot of teams called him up. So he's basically trying to do Schmidt a favor by trading him elsewhere if it makes the team better.

Also steal signing for garland

Canucks re-sign Conor Garland to a five-year deal at a 4.95M cap hit. With no signing bonuses And no NTC.

This post was edited by Secksii on Jul 27 2021 10:40am
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Jul 27 2021 10:40am
Quote (Secksii @ Jul 27 2021 09:38am)
I don't think he shopped him, once the rumors came out that he wasn't happy in Vancouver, a lot of teams called him up. So he's basically trying to do Schmidt a favor by trading him elsewhere if it makes the team better.

Also steal signing for garland

Canucks re-sign Conor Garland to a five-year deal at a 4.95M cap hit.


The Garland signing looks good at least. OTOH why tf did we give term to Pearaon...

This post was edited by Hizkuntza on Jul 27 2021 10:40am
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Jul 27 2021 10:47am
Garland was my little sidekick for a year back in Junior when he was 17. He was a little fucker but I loved it. Everyone counted this guy out since he was a kid for being too small, glad to see him get paid.

This post was edited by SharpNips on Jul 27 2021 10:49am
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Jul 27 2021 10:53am
Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
I completely agree, but Myers is valuable to the team even though he's overpaid because we already saw what happened when he wasn't there to fill the void. Unless you actually prefer watching revolving dmen becuase they're cheaper and with the saved cap how would you improve the backend?


You have to think at a higher level than "have cap space, spend cap space". Open cap space is an extremely valuable asset. Sometimes you have to bide your time for the right move, or save it for a rainy day.


Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
I agree again, it's already hard enough to find a good 3C but these players can't even outplay Beags in the 4C role. He has been used more like a 3C for the team cuz Gaudette sadly could not play the 3C role. Although to be fair, when he signed those bottom 6 contracts is when the team didn't have a set core to build around, nor ready prospects and they were just fillers til our farm system developed some players. Who knew the team would hit jackpots in the draft without any top 5 picks and significantly speed up the process.


Yes it's nice that some of the draft picks have graduated early/sooner than expected. But that's something that should be accounted for, not something we should have been blindsided by. Take a look at the type of veteran contracts Stevie Y is signing in Detroit, they will never get in the way the way ours did.

Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
How would you find a different way to get a D-man though??
Didn't Benning actually try all those options you listed before signing Myers?

Draft better -> Failed here, other than Hughes he had nobody in the system developed or ready, Rathbone seems promising but he is just about ready now to see whats up, juolevi seems like a bust, woo is still far away, brisebois etc. unless you resort to drafting all dmen instead of BPA in draft?? i dont like that idea.

Sign better college FAs -> he gambled on Stecher, Teves, Rafferty etc. & the best he got was stecher. How do you know who's "better college FA" to target though without playing the hindsight game?

He also gambled through FA for short term guys which resulted in revolving door-men for many years and prevented himself from being locked up to a bad contract, and the result was Green being forced to play MDZ & Bartkowski :(

He even scouted undrafted players & pray they turn out to be gems, --> holm, chatfield, sautner, doesn't seem like it so far though.


I don't have any behind the scenes access, so I don't know. But I refuse to believe that whatever Benning did is best case scenario, nothing he's done as the GM here would make me believe he's that competent. Toews got traded for 2 seconds and was like a top 10 D-men, why weren't we in on that? Not saying it had to be Toews in particular, but I'm sure there are a lot of options out there that never see the light of day.

Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
So i guess he finally took the last option and went for Myers?? At least he has been quite solid for the Canucks.

Benning definitely could've negotiated better, but his FA negotiation is trash af, but what can you do when your org is not a contender? low ball/or pay 500k more to play on a shittier team and pray they accept or fuck off? and resort back to pouliots and sbisas??

Yes, now explain how you would go about negotiating them to join the Canucks on those contracts instead of elite teams like Tampa/Avs?? Majority of their dcore right now is from trades, aside from Hedman, Makar and Timmins. Shows how tough it is to even draft all on your own when elite teams like them had to resort through trade and sign. I too wish Canucks can trade for their needs without weakening other areas on the roster or giving up the future, but that's impossible without 1 or the other.


A player like Myers is not an impact player, not a player you overpay for. He's a complimentary piece that would be nice to have on your team @ the right price, not a big fish you chase in free agency.

If you're having trouble luring big names, draft & develop and then wait until you're a promising young team so that free agents will be tantalized. It might take longer but at least that way you don't cripple your cap.

Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
Stecher would be awesome at 1.7m, but if the Canucks qualified him he would be minimum 2.3m or something. Also if stecher went through arbitration, it would be much higher. He's definitely awesome character guy to have as he always gave it all, but come on, we both watched the nightmare when he and gaudette were extremely exposed af in playoffs. He's a 3rd pairing at best on a good team, and we are not a good team, as he was playing top 4 & recently pushed out in favor of Myers. I agree that paying 3.5m more for Myers over Stecher isn't worth it, but Myers has been more solid than Stecher has been with the Canucks, and he still averages more than 5+ minutes than Stetcher on both teams. Which means more rest for fresh legs for other RHD to go up against tough matchups instead of being forced to overplay their minutes.

puckIQ also shows more information if you're interested.
http://www.puckiq.com/woodmoney?season=20192020&tier=Elite&positions=d&team=van&group_by=player_season_team


According to that Stecher had easier competition but also performed equal or better in all the categories. Which means if his competition was a bit tougher / closer to Myers, his performance would have been worse / closer to Myers. In other words, they performed relatively equally, just at very different cap hits.

Quote (Secksii @ May 25 2021 08:54pm)
I know we had Myers instead of Tanev this year. I've been asking you like 3 times now what your solution is if the Canucks did not have Myers and used 4.5m to re-sign Tanev instead. You take out myers for space to keep Tanev + 1.5m , but you should also be willing to take out what Myers brought to the team too... 20+ min RHD dman, relied heavily on by Green etc. i mean if that 1.5m is a game changer for the team, more so than what Myers currently brings to the team, im all for it.

You keep answering that Tanev replaces Myers minutes, but Tanev would always been with the team and never left. He would be playing the staple minutes with Hughes, Edler/Schmitty would be playing the match up. Myers was never here, so with the saved cap, who is being used to fill Myers minutes the past season and this season? I guess Benn would've still been here, and not traded for a pick & save 2m?


My brain hurts.

Flashback to before we ever had Myers.

Now pretend we never signed him.

Now, because his 6M isn't on the books, we have space to keep Tanev and Stecher.

Schmidt - Tanev - Stecher down the right side, looks good to me. Why do we need Myers?

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Jul 27 2021 01:25pm
Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
You have to think at a higher level than "have cap space, spend cap space". Open cap space is an extremely valuable asset. Sometimes you have to bide your time for the right move, or save it for a rainy day.


it's only an asset if you can use it to improve though, otherwise it's just Ottawa 2.0 (team could be a lot better if they used the cap to keep their stars, or sign better players)


Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
Yes it's nice that some of the draft picks have graduated early/sooner than expected. But that's something that should be accounted for, not something we should have been blindsided by. Take a look at the type of veteran contracts Stevie Y is signing in Detroit, they will never get in the way the way ours did.


you weren't blind sided by Hughes and Petey? I mean if we won back to back #1 OA picks or had as many draft picks and value as Buffalo did, probably wouldn't be blindsided at all either.

Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
I don't have any behind the scenes access, so I don't know. But I refuse to believe that whatever Benning did is best case scenario, nothing he's done as the GM here would make me believe he's that competent. Toews got traded for 2 seconds and was like a top 10 D-men, why weren't we in on that? Not saying it had to be Toews in particular, but I'm sure there are a lot of options out there that never see the light of day.


Toews was a flat cap casualty. I mean if Benning could trade some draft picks for a top 10 dman that would be nice, but at the same time the same people would say what the point of the trade was? Give up picks = future = rebuild for established dman. idk i think he did all he could, considering all the options he did prior before resorting to FA and overpaying for Myers as i listed all options he went through over the years.

Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
A player like Myers is not an impact player, not a player you overpay for. He's a complimentary piece that would be nice to have on your team @ the right price, not a big fish you chase in free agency.

If you're having trouble luring big names, draft & develop and then wait until you're a promising young team so that free agents will be tantalized. It might take longer but at least that way you don't cripple your cap.


He's definitely a huge impact player and has been so far to the Canucks. Green uses him a lot in all situations and depends on him, he led the ice time against elite competition and all minutes on the team. He's overpaid, but that doesn't mean he's not impactful to the team at all...


Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
According to that Stecher had easier competition but also performed equal or better in all the categories. Which means if his competition was a bit tougher / closer to Myers, his performance would have been worse / closer to Myers. In other words, they performed relatively equally, just at very different cap hits.


Not sure how you're reading it, but Myers was the most used dman by Green in all situations and against elite competition. Myers CF% is at the top against elite, and 2nd behind hughes in all situations, despite playing far more minutes than Stecher. I don't think they're comparable at all. Stecher has a lot of difficulty against elite compeititon 45.4%, but thrives more in all minutes 48.1%. Hence why Green used him like a 5th-6th dman on the team. Stecher didn't PK nor provided much in the pp either, especially in a season where pp2 found tremendous success.


Quote (LuLer @ 27 Jul 2021 09:53)
My brain hurts.

Flashback to before we ever had Myers.

Now pretend we never signed him.

Now, because his 6M isn't on the books, we have space to keep Tanev and Stecher.

Schmidt - Tanev - Stecher down the right side, looks good to me. Why do we need Myers?


If you wanna play hindsight, you might as well play it for both sides. Pretend covid didn't happen and cap wasn't flat and it rose to 85m as expected, pretend if luongo LTIR'd instead of retiring, pretend Benning didn't trade 1st for Miller and he drafted a bust with it etc. etc.

Flashback to before we ever had Myers, MDZ? Sbisa? Beiga? Larsen? Sautner, Pouliot, Fatenberg list goes on.

If we never signed Myers, The team's performance would've heavily declined further playing with more fringe NHLers. It's not like we haven't seen Tanev/Stecher play before Myers got here, they've been with the team for a long time. I mean it was to the point Tanev was losing value every year due to being injure prone and "declining". Even analytics showed that. We can play hindsight cuz he found success in a much deeper D core team with the flames and had his best season AND elevated hanafin's, despite that, the team still went no where. Stecher would've been 2.3m with the Canucks because they had to qualify him, so they didn't qualify him and became a UFA. He chose to sign with Detroit instead of signing with the Canucks. Stecher would've taken more money than his current deal and/or go to a better team if he had multiple offers in FA, but because of covid/flatcap i don't think he had much of a choice. He was used similarly for the Wings, still a 4/5th dman on that rebuilding roster, still doesn't PK nor PP, had his worst performance in his career. He's a depth player, there's a reason even Stevie Y exposed him over Lindstrom, and he got skipped over by Kraken for Cholo. It's time to move on from him =(

it'd make much more sense to blame Eriksson's contract for not working out and being completely useless to the team over the years, than Myer's 6m... if we dont blame lu's penalty, flatcap of course

This post was edited by Secksii on Jul 27 2021 01:27pm
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Jul 27 2021 05:52pm
so OEL was schmidt's replacement after all

christ lmfao
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Jul 27 2021 06:57pm
Quote (Hizkuntza @ Jul 27 2021 04:52pm)
so OEL was schmidt's replacement after all

christ lmfao


D core is looking pretty pathetic lol.

With how many moves have been made so far I think Jim Benning is going to go after a d-man or two.

Please no over pay.....

We have 3 NHL grade defenseman right now lol.

If we get another top 4 d-man maybe some young guys can emerge and make the bottom pairing work.

This post was edited by Killingyouall on Jul 27 2021 06:58pm
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