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#11401
Jul 16 2019 06:11pm
Quote (Meatstick @ Jul 16 2019 08:06pm)
So what I’m seeing here is Konecny>Marner


Ya no doubt
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#11402
Jul 16 2019 06:15pm
Quote (Meatstick @ Jul 16 2019 06:10pm)
He was also like 20-21 years old? Players tend to develop, sure Marner obviously will benefit from having JT, but let’s not pretend like he wouldn’t be PPG without



Let’s talk about the other overhyped Canadian team (flames) for a bit if you want. Gaudreau going to cherry pick his way to get points again this years?



Always knew you were a laffs fan
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#11403
Jul 16 2019 06:21pm
Quote (Meatstick @ Jul 16 2019 08:06pm)
So what I’m seeing here is Konecny>Marner


seems like you need to get your eyes checked then or learn to read
Quote (Meatstick @ Jul 16 2019 08:10pm)
He was also like 20-21 years old? Players tend to develop, sure Marner obviously will benefit from having JT, but let’s not pretend like he wouldn’t be PPG without



Let’s talk about the other overhyped Canadian team (flames) for a bit if you want. Gaudreau going to cherry pick his way to get points again this years?


marners isnt asking to be paid like a ppg player though he wants to be paid like a 100 point player after one season of 94 with an amazingly good center
if you could sign him to ppg player money it would be done by now and wouldnt costs 4 1sts and this whole talk is totally different because hes probably a leaf by now

im not saying marner isnt a good player that could probably put up a ppg with a good center but expecting 90+ without JT? thats a bit much imo and a team to give up 4 1sts and pay that is insane
the leafs to pay him to play with JT and likely have steady 90+ point seasons is not but his asking price is still pretty crazy

but i really dont get where your all "lets not pretend hes not a ppg player" yeah sure ppg but is a ppg player worth like 12m and 4 1sts? cuz that seems to be what your arguing

This post was edited by dragoneth on Jul 16 2019 06:37pm
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#11404
Jul 16 2019 06:41pm
Breaking news good players play better with other good players.
Also this just in Taveres didn’t break ppg for his first 2 years.
They are both great players , all said and done I’d expect marners career to be close in caliber to JT.
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#11405
Jul 16 2019 07:24pm
Quote (dragoneth @ 16 Jul 2019 16:42)
tavares put up 4 more points then he did on the islanders with anders lee? and who else i dont even know the season before
i mean sure he benefits having a winger like marner over a guy like anders lee but even with average wingers tavares has been a steady 70-80 pt guy marner had 61 and 69 pt seasons JT comes along and boom 94 points
you say those other rfas are driven by their linemates but act like marner isnt then why the fuck did he jump up 20 pts as soon as he plays with jt? they both benefit sure but that doesnt mean JT doesnt boosts the fuck our of marners play just like those other rfas
linemates
like dont get me wrong marner is a great player but if you expect another 90+ season without JT i dont think you get maybe 70-80 which is still great but if your paying him for 90+ and dont have jt type center and giving up 4 1sts..oof



konecny was actually bouncing around between the 1st and 2nd because they kept trying to get voracek going if he played the whole season with g+couts he prob puts up 60 and close to 30g


marners a small guy what if he gets run the fuck over and seriously hurt? LTIR or concussion issues you have zero first rounders to draft a replacement and you have a giant hole on your team
it happened to philly with pronger we gave up 2 or 3? 1sts or something he got hurt we had zero defense and zero picks to do anything with
even crosby had concusion issues like players get hurt its a tough league


Im just going by what the players analysis indicate... Marner shows his playing making is elite lvl, just behind McDavid and kuchie... Can't say the same for boeser, Laine, konecy sadly. I'm not saying it as my opinion, it's literally their stats indicating that they can't drive the line like Marner does lol

Tavares and marner both excelled together and benefitted from each other.

This post was edited by Secksii on Jul 16 2019 07:25pm
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#11406
Jul 16 2019 07:26pm
Quote (remco6 @ Jul 16 2019 08:41pm)
Breaking news good players play better with other good players.
Also this just in Taveres didn’t break ppg for his first 2 years.
They are both great players , all said and done I’d expect marners career to be close in caliber to JT.


nobody is questioning that though

lets put it like this if you guys had the choice what would you pick
you can go offer sheet laine rantanen aho point whoever is an RFA 8.5-10.5m per@7 years and give up 2 1sts +2nd+3rd
or would you prefer to offersheet marner 11m 11.5 whatever hes asking per@7 years and give up 4 1sts


personally i see the first players as a better option they are great players and you dont give up nearly as much in picks and the cap hits are reasonable
thats basically been my point all night idk where you guys get there better players or whatever troll shit you come up with
and as for JT im harping on that becasue hes one of the best goal scoring centers a good playmaking center is way more common but finding a scoring center like JT to pair with a playmaking winger like marner is tough to do
and unless your teams got that JT type scoring center i feel like marner has even less value to that team not becasue marners not a good player but because the guy needs a center to pass to

and i bring up guys like boesser and konecny yes there not on the top RFAs level but they cost even less prob like 5-6.5m and 1st+3rd to offersheet if you need a top 6 winger they can fill that role and cost you fuck all in picks compared to the other RFAs
Quote (Meatstick @ Jul 16 2019 09:46pm)
Ew a 1st for Konecny


yeah i can see how a bottom feeder team like the sens might value their 1sts pretty highly but you guys need a lot more then a top 6 winger you need like 4

This post was edited by dragoneth on Jul 16 2019 07:52pm
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#11407
Jul 16 2019 07:46pm
Ew a 1st for Konecny
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#11408
Jul 16 2019 08:03pm
That would depend on what the team needs, I mean if a team had Henrik sedins/Thornton in their prime I would definitely want them to go after Laine and boeser instead of marner.

However, If a team has a lot of elite finishers but lack the elite play making player to enable those players further, it would be worth getting a marner type player even if cost is 4 1sts. Since mcdavid/kucherov seem untouchable or the team will need to give up immediate assets, picks and more for them etc.

Also obviously the price of 2 1st,2nd,3rd is easier to swallow, or even the tier below that, which would make the rfa players team match the offer far more likely than having them walk for those mere picks.

I bet Gillis totally would have offer sheeted a player for 4 1st Rd picks since he was a cap management god but a beyond shit tier drafter. I'm pretty sure the Canucks broke some sort of record to have the worst draft in the entire league from 2007 to 2012 (their window) :rofl:

This post was edited by Secksii on Jul 16 2019 08:21pm
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#11409
Jul 16 2019 08:03pm
Ottawa firsts are so valuable they let other teams pick for them.
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#11410
Jul 16 2019 08:55pm
Quote (Secksii @ Jul 16 2019 06:24pm)
Im just going by what the players analysis indicate... Marner shows his playing making is elite lvl, just behind McDavid and kuchie... Can't say the same for boeser, Laine, konecy sadly. I'm not saying it as my opinion, it's literally their stats indicating that they can't drive the line like Marner does lol

Tavares and marner both excelled together and benefitted from each other.


Hurts to see Boeser in that category but it is true.

When you look at the RFA'S I would say Rantanen Marner and Point are above the rest by a fair margin.

These are the RFA'S that benefited from being surrounded by other elite players but I believe they are also good enough to create by themselves if push comes to shove. As you said numbers can back this up.

The others are largely one dimensional players who need to be complimented by other player(s) who mesh with their play style.

They are worth considerably less for this reason imo.

You look at Marners age and all around ability and you could argue he is the best Leaf, which really says a lot because you of course have Matthews/Tavares to compare him to.

Matthews and Tavares both bring lots to the table, but based on age, ability, and potential I would have no hesitation to take Marner over both of them. It is not sensible for him to take less than these two. He should be in between, or even paid more than both of them.

I don't blame him and his agent for holding out. The Leafs dished out the money for everyone else.... No sense in him taking less.

This post was edited by Killingyouall on Jul 16 2019 08:56pm
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