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Jun 30 2014 09:10am
Quote (dxlightning @ Jun 30 2014 11:08am)
Mrazek is 22 and knows what standard practice is for bringing up goalies. If he's gonna leave because he has to wait til 23 or 24 to be a regular, then I don't want him.


let me rephrase, he won't leave because he wants to, he will leave because I feel he will be forced to. Wings have a lot more needs than goalies right now, and as you pointed out with the franzen/Weiss and kindl issues...this is another year I would hate to be Holland

This post was edited by valeckvalem on Jun 30 2014 09:11am
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Jun 30 2014 09:18am
Quote (valeckvalem @ Jun 30 2014 11:10am)
let me rephrase, he won't leave because he wants to, he will leave because I feel he will be forced to. Wings have a lot more needs than goalies right now, and as you pointed out with the franzen/Weiss and kindl issues...this is another year I would hate to be Holland


Eh. I think as far as signings go, mrazek is above gus on the priority list. Keep in mind gus is similar age to Jimmy, so if they choose him over mrazek they get boned when Jimmy is finished. I would rather take a slight hit on backup than find the wings 4 years down the line with two goalies far past their prime.
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Jun 30 2014 09:29am
Quote (dxlightning @ Jun 30 2014 11:18am)
Eh. I think as far as signings go, mrazek is above gus on the priority list. Keep in mind gus is similar age to Jimmy, so if they choose him over mrazek they get boned when Jimmy is finished. I would rather take a slight hit on backup than find the wings 4 years down the line with two goalies far past their prime.


oh dx you made me get off my phone and get on my pc for this discussion, thanks :). Now, if that were true, why wasn't mrazek with us instead of Gus during playoffs? Both are viable backups to Jimmy, and hell, in my opinion any one of them could be starters at this point. But as history has shown us, aka: osgood. even when we had Hasek, they kept ozzy, even when there was better out there to acquire.And everyone knew that Hasek was going to be hanging up the helmet after that year. I think the same thing is happening here. and no, howard is no Hasek by a longshot, i'm not saying that. I'm saying as a perspective point of view, and honestly, what i would like to see, is them trade off Jimmy, get something of value that we NEED, and figure out who is gonna step up, Mrazek or Gus. To me, this is Howie's last year to prove himself, otherwise the fans will eat him up, let alone the media, at least here in Detroit. alot of the fanbase here like both Mrazek and Gus, so I doubt no one would be too upset, plus they are legit goalies. And cmon man, bringing up age with the redwings is like bringing up montreal and 24cups, its just silly talk man, and seems to be starting to hurt the wings now. age isn't such a beauty as it used to be 10-15yrs ago.
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Jun 30 2014 09:34am
Quote (valeckvalem @ Jun 30 2014 11:29am)
oh dx you made me get off my phone and get on my pc for this discussion, thanks :). Now, if that were true, why wasn't mrazek with us instead of Gus during playoffs? Both are viable backups to Jimmy, and hell, in my opinion any one of them could be starters at this point. But as history has shown us, aka: osgood. even when we had Hasek, they kept ozzy, even when there was better out there to acquire.And everyone knew that Hasek was going to be hanging up the helmet after that year.  I think the same thing is happening here. and no, howard is no Hasek by a longshot, i'm not saying that. I'm saying as a perspective point of view, and honestly, what i would like to see, is them trade off Jimmy, get something of value that we NEED, and figure out who is gonna step up, Mrazek or Gus. To me, this is Howie's last year to prove himself, otherwise the fans will eat him up, let alone the media, at least here in Detroit. alot of the fanbase here like both Mrazek and Gus, so I doubt no one would be too upset, plus they are legit goalies. And cmon man, bringing up age with the redwings is like bringing up montreal and 24cups, its just silly talk man, and seems to be starting to hurt the wings now. age isn't such a beauty as it used to be 10-15yrs ago.


Gus is a better backup. Mrazek is a better starter. That's why he wasn't with us in playoffs, because he needs starter experience. Keep in mind he jumped three leagues last year (or was it the year before?) Fans like him and want to rush him. That just throws up red flags for me, because if we put all our eggs in gus and Mrazek there's an easy chance wings get beat into oblivion during D and Zs last elite years. They're playing it safe, there's plenty of time to transition to Mrazek.
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Jun 30 2014 09:42am
Quote (dxlightning @ Jun 30 2014 11:34am)
Gus is a better backup. Mrazek is a better starter. That's why he wasn't with us in playoffs, because he needs starter experience. Keep in mind he jumped three leagues last year (or was it the year before?) Fans like him and want to rush him. That just throws up red flags for me, because if we put all our eggs in gus and Mrazek there's an easy chance wings get beat into oblivion during D and Zs last elite years. They're playing it safe, there's plenty of time to transition to Mrazek.


yeah was 2yrs ago. even still though, gus got us some good wins during the season while jimmy was out holding his hand and icing his knee. that's also another issue, jimmy has been getting hurt as well so who knows how well he is holding up. i really don't take anything away from mrazek or gus, i like them both and hope we are able to keep them. my frustration is with jimmy, and how he can't stay consistent. yes our defense has gone down hill immensely since Lidstrom left, but i've been pretty vocal about that fact, but i mean sometimes he just lets in the weakest goals that makes you wanna smash your television set. Idk, i wanna put faith in Jimmy, but the faith is uncertain, that's why i said this is make it or break it year, and yeah you are right, maybe they are playing it safe, because once Pav and Hank are gone, it's gonna be full rebuild time, but, and i mean BUT, if we can hang onto that kid line, and just love it, and nurture it and let it grow, I think we will be ok...
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Jun 30 2014 09:42am
I agree to continue the development game with mrazek.
But sooner or later, there will be a time when mrazek's time to shine is going to cut in to Howard's contract.
Right now, nothing needs to happen.
But in time, it will be interesting to see.
If mrazek gets the job at 25 even though, that would be fine and maybe ideal. Quick was similar. Howard was similar.
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Jun 30 2014 10:46am
Quote (valeckvalem @ Jun 30 2014 11:42am)
yeah was 2yrs ago. even still though, gus got us some good wins during the season while jimmy was out holding his hand and icing his knee. that's also another issue, jimmy has been getting hurt as well so who knows how well he is holding up. i really don't take anything away from mrazek or gus, i like them both and hope we are able to keep them. my frustration is with jimmy, and how he can't stay consistent. yes our defense has gone down hill immensely since Lidstrom left, but i've been pretty vocal about that fact, but i mean sometimes he just lets in the weakest goals that makes you wanna smash your television set. Idk, i wanna put faith in Jimmy, but the faith is uncertain, that's why i said this is make it or break it year, and yeah you are right, maybe they are playing it safe, because once Pav and Hank are gone, it's gonna be full rebuild time, but, and i mean BUT, if we can hang onto that kid line, and just love it, and nurture it and let it grow, I think we will be ok...


I just don't get the Howard hate. Honestly, I think it stems from two hot playoff appearances in a row for him, fans got massive expectations and when he returned to normal this year people are overexaggerating how bad he was. Especially with Gus playing so much higher than his average game for a couple stretches. Gus is made of glass even worse than Jimmy is, I wouldn't feel comfortable with him as starter - not to mention how much he imploded after having similar hype in Toronto but then again, it's Toronto. I'll give Jimmy two more seasons before I turn on him, and even then it'll take a bit. Gus I can live with or without, if he puts up another season like this last one there'll be other teams knocking on his door and his price will go up.

I see no reason why when Pav and Hank are gone that the wings can't keep trucking. Gus and Tats are in similar positions to where Hank and Dats were in 2002-2003. I'm not saying a rebuild won't happen, just that the wings have a really good cycle of talent to make the transition from current core to next core. The main thing they're missing is a top centerman, which I'm not sure Sheahan is going to be.

Quote (Stealth @ Jun 30 2014 11:42am)
I agree to continue the development game with mrazek.
But sooner or later, there will be a time when mrazek's time to shine is going to cut in to Howard's contract.
Right now, nothing needs to happen.
But in time, it will be interesting to see.
If mrazek gets the job at 25 even though, that would be fine and maybe ideal. Quick was similar.  Howard was similar.


Mrazek's next contract will be 2-3 years, low millions (1-2). He's playing the last year of his ELC in GR and then will want to move up, which I say they should do. If he takes the starter job and we pay Howard $5.xx million for 2 years to be backup, I honestly see no issue with that. It's not ideal, but if the initial plan is to have howard start and mrazek be backup, they've still got the same cap hit combined if they swap places - makes it easy to plan for. Discuss a buyout or trade in the year Mrazek is up for his big-buck contract if that's what happens.

All in all I think it's just too risky at this point to go with a guy made of glass who had the best season of his career at age 29. Howard is the safe choice for now.

This post was edited by dxlightning on Jun 30 2014 10:51am
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Jun 30 2014 11:04am
I agree with you.
Im just the person that seeks out the manicured ideal position at all times.
If we end up with two starters I could live with that. or paying Howard 5 to sit on the bench for a little while.
An awful lot can change in 2-3 years though I think they're in a good spot all things considered

As far as rebuild goes- I dont think they will (yet again).
I feel that there are enough pieces in place where they will be able to reload for this next generation.
Maybe Mantha makes it up for datsyuks last year (or two...). Maybe these defensemen pan out in the AHL.
I feel confident in their long term outlook.

I wonder though if we will only see a defenseman add for July 1 and they wait on a forward until the trade deadline and bore everyone.
Of course the fan in me wants both right now :p
That 14M in cap is going to get eaten up in a hurry though.
Hopefully they get good prices on these young guys.
If they have to give a vet like boyle 6 or whatever for a one to two year deal I can live with that.

This post was edited by Stealth on Jun 30 2014 11:05am
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Jul 1 2014 06:57am
wings are interested in niskanen? Idk about that, doubt he would come cheap
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Jul 1 2014 07:22am
Quote (valeckvalem @ Jul 1 2014 08:57am)
wings are interested in niskanen? Idk about that, doubt he would come cheap


Wings are interested in any right handed defenseman. I'd rather trade though.
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