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Nov 26 2022 04:31pm
Quote (Sixers @ Nov 27 2022 08:38am)
I said two way player factoring defense, sure. Not better offensively though.

Luka is in a whole different class when it comes to passing and court vision. He's essentially a point guard. Tatum has improved in that area but he's still nothing special, still gets tunnel vision with poor shot selection. These two can't be compared in that regard.

Difference is when Tatum struggles he gets bailed out by Brown or others with more talent around him. When Luka struggles the Mavs get smoked because he doesn't have any other go-to guys to take over. At least last season he had Brunson to carry while he was out.



I’d say Luka has even worse shot selection, Tatums is actually quite good now. Pretty much stopped with the mid range jumpers. Mostly at the rim, and 3s. His court vision and passing is quickly becoming elite for his position.
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Nov 26 2022 06:09pm
Quote (Nwotmik @ Nov 26 2022 05:31pm)
I’d say Luka has even worse shot selection, Tatums is actually quite good now. Pretty much stopped with the mid range jumpers. Mostly at the rim, and 3s. His court vision and passing is quickly becoming elite for his position.


Luka is DOMINANT in the mid range. Tatum has never been able to touch the sort of efficiency we're seeing there from Luka.

Luka this season from mid range:

48% from 16+ feet to the 3pt line
58% from 10-16 feet
58% from 3-10 feet

Hard to cal it a bad shot when he's hitting like THAT

Joel Embiid type of efficiency from the mid range 👀

This post was edited by Sixers on Nov 26 2022 06:11pm
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Nov 27 2022 12:09am
Quote (Sixers @ Nov 27 2022 11:09am)
Luka is DOMINANT in the mid range. Tatum has never been able to touch the sort of efficiency we're seeing there from Luka.

Luka this season from mid range:

48% from 16+ feet to the 3pt line
58% from 10-16 feet
58% from 3-10 feet

Hard to cal it a bad shot when he's hitting like THAT

Joel Embiid type of efficiency from the mid range 👀


Cool, that’s lovely and nice, but a hooting from mid range is still the least efficient shot in basketball, and that’s why Luka’s PPS is (very slightly) lower than Tatums, despite shooting 2.3 more free throws per game. Although Tatums raw fg% is marginally lower, he is still the more overall efficient scorer this season - thus making his shot selection better?

This post was edited by Nwotmik on Nov 27 2022 12:10am
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Nov 27 2022 09:16am
Quote (Nwotmik @ Nov 27 2022 01:09am)
Cool, that’s lovely and nice, but a hooting from mid range is still the least efficient shot in basketball, and that’s why Luka’s PPS is (very slightly) lower than Tatums, despite shooting 2.3 more free throws per game. Although Tatums raw fg% is marginally lower, he is still the more overall efficient scorer this season - thus making his shot selection better?


PPS

1.48 vs 1.47

Not exactly a dramatic difference there lol. This is the first season Tatum has a higher PPS than Luka too, like 20 games into the season.

And yeah Luka is better at drawing fouls. He's better inside the 3pt line in general, better footwork, better moves, better jump shot, better passing, better rebounder, higher basketball IQ.

Luka's PER is MUCH higher (32.6) compared to Tatum (26.2). He also has higher RPM, RPM Wins, Win Shares, VORP, etc. Most advanced stats have Luka ahead, which isn't really a surprise.
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Nov 27 2022 12:52pm
Quote (Sixers @ Nov 28 2022 02:16am)
PPS

1.48 vs 1.47

Not exactly a dramatic difference there lol. This is the first season Tatum has a higher PPS than Luka too, like 20 games into the season.

And yeah Luka is better at drawing fouls. He's better inside the 3pt line in general, better footwork, better moves, better jump shot, better passing, better rebounder, higher basketball IQ.

Luka's PER is MUCH higher (32.6) compared to Tatum (26.2). He also has higher RPM, RPM Wins, Win Shares, VORP, etc. Most advanced stats have Luka ahead, which isn't really a surprise.


I did say slightly higher, but you can’t say Tatum is less efficient and has worse shot selection when PPS indicates that isn’t true at all. Luka is better at drawing fouls, he also plays for fouls and flops for them unlike Tatum - adding to his PPS…. Yeah idk if he has better footwork, better moves, better jump shot or a better rebounder or BBall IQ - you’re kind of getting a bit silly now. Yeah his passing is better, for sure, but Tatum is catching him in that department.

Tatum is better from 3, better from FT line, far better defender, far more athletic, more stamina, turns it over less, stays healthy more, etc etc

Tatum is for sure the better player overall but they have different strengths and weaknesses. It is funny how you can homer Doncic so hard though but hate on Tatum. Tatum actually plays attractive style of basketball now, is humble, doesn’t flop and doesn’t complain nearly as much as Luka. Doncic is a fat pig who’s a bit of an egomaniac, selfish as fuck and plays a boring ass style of basketball albeit does have some flashy plays, but in terms of team play, it’s dull. The only thing going for him is he’s mum is hot as fuck.
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Nov 27 2022 03:56pm
Quote (Nwotmik @ Nov 27 2022 01:52pm)
I did say slightly higher, but you can’t say Tatum is less efficient and has worse shot selection when PPS indicates that isn’t true at all. Luka is better at drawing fouls, he also plays for fouls and flops for them unlike Tatum - adding to his PPS…. Yeah idk if he has better footwork, better moves, better jump shot or a better rebounder or BBall IQ - you’re kind of getting a bit silly now. Yeah his passing is better, for sure, but Tatum is catching him in that department.

Tatum is better from 3, better from FT line, far better defender, far more athletic, more stamina, turns it over less, stays healthy more, etc etc

Tatum is for sure the better player overall but they have different strengths and weaknesses. It is funny how you can homer Doncic so hard though but hate on Tatum. Tatum actually plays attractive style of basketball now, is humble, doesn’t flop and doesn’t complain nearly as much as Luka. Doncic is a fat pig who’s a bit of an egomaniac, selfish as fuck and plays a boring ass style of basketball albeit does have some flashy plays, but in terms of team play, it’s dull. The only thing going for him is he’s mum is hot as fuck.


Luka absolutely has a higher bball IQ that's not even arguable..he's an elite point guard who runs the offense for his team, a top 10 offense at that despite lacking talent and having no other go-to scorers outside of him.

Tatum is blessed to be playing on a much better team which gives him more opportunities, less attention, and the ability to play within a system that allows ball movement where others players (like Brown) can take over at times. You throw Tatum on the Mavs in place of Luka and they'd be worse because Tatum isn't creating for others like Luka can, not even close. Tatum's efficiency would be trash if he was on a bad team.

Luka also has to create for himself WAYYYYYY more than Tatum. Again, the joy of being on an actually good team with other good players. There's ZERO question about who is better overall offensively, Luka wins that debate hands down. Tatum is a better defender, although he doesn't rebound as well as Luka. The Mavs are a top 10 defense and Luka's defensive shortcomings are overstated by NBA casuals (as I've already pointed out his numbers are very good). Luka is leading the league in scoring and top 3 in assists per game though, and he's #1 in PER, RPM, etc, so hls offense can't be questioned.


Also, you still haven't learned what "homer" means rofl. Every time I talk good about a player around the NBA you say I'm "homering" them. Do I look like a Dallas fan to you?

This post was edited by Sixers on Nov 27 2022 04:09pm
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Nov 27 2022 04:07pm
Tatum has at LEAST three or four other players on his team who are better than the Mavs second best player. That's why the Celtics are contenders and the Mavs are .500 lol

This post was edited by Sixers on Nov 27 2022 04:08pm
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Nov 27 2022 04:21pm
Quote (Sixers @ Nov 28 2022 08:56am)
Luka absolutely has a higher bball IQ that's not even arguable..he's an elite point guard who runs the offense for his team, a top 10 offense at that despite lacking talent and having no other go-to scorers outside of him.

Tatum is blessed to be playing on a much better team which gives him more opportunities, less attention, and the ability to play within a system that allows ball movement where others players (like Brown) can take over at times. You throw Tatum on the Mavs in place of Luka and they'd be worse because Tatum isn't creating for others like Luka can, not even close. Tatum's efficiency would be trash if he was on a bad team.

Luka also has to create for himself WAYYYYYY more than Tatum. Again, the joy of being on an actually good team with other good players. There's ZERO question about who is better overall offensively, Luka wins that debate hands down. Tatum is a better defender, although he doesn't rebound as well as Luka. The Mavs are a top 10 defense and Luka's defensive shortcomings are overstated by NBA casuals (as I've already pointed out his numbers are very good). Luka is leading the league in scoring and top 3 in assists per game though, and he's #1 in PER, RPM, etc, so hls offense can't be questioned.


Also, you still haven't learned what "homer" means rofl. Every time I talk good about a player around the NBA you say I'm "homering" them. Do I look like a Dallas fan to you?



He runs the offense but he doesn’t run it well lol. Jayson Tatum is at the helm of the greatest offense of all time. He’s obviously not the floor general that Luka is, but a lot of plays run through him and he creates them with his drive and attack.

Like I said, everyone knows who the better player is.
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Nov 27 2022 04:23pm
Quote (Sixers @ Nov 28 2022 09:07am)
Tatum has at LEAST three or four other players on his team who are better than the Mavs second best player. That's why the Celtics are contenders and the Mavs are .500 lol


Lol the Celtics have 3 or 4 better players than EVERY teams second best player. Even the 76ers. Unfair comparison.
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Nov 27 2022 04:33pm
Nothing about Tatum's season aside his teams record points to best player in the league, right now he’s a clear margin behind Curry and Jokic. Luka has the edge in impact while shouldering a heavier burden, Cs have an elite supporting cast

Tatum
8th in PER (26.2)
33rd in TS (.625)
9th WS/48 (.217)
6th VORP (1.5)
26th On Court +/- (9.1)
58th On-Off +/- (8.3)
4th RAPTOR
4th WAR

Curry
3rd PER (29.7)
6th TS (.691)
3nd WS/48 (.272)
2nd VORP (2.1)
18th On Court +/- (10.3)
1st On-Off +/- (31.2)
2nd RAPTOR (12.8)
1st WAR (5.1)

Jokic
2nd PER (30.4)
5th TS (.696)
1st WS/48 (.291)
3rd VORP (1.7)
7th On Court +/- (12.9)
2nd On-Off +/- (28.5)
1st RAPTOR (14.8)
2nd WAR (4.7)

Doncic
1st PER (31.7)
59th TS (.607)
2nd WS/48 (.273)
1st VORP (2.1)
74th On Court +/- (3.7)
91st On-Off +/- (4.3)
3rd RAPTOR (9.7)
3rd WAR (4.1)
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