What the hell am I reading lol

Parachute packer

u still mad?

Am furious

Have a snickers

It's actually a fair discussion. Zach Harper wrote an interesting article about this very issue after yesterday's injuries.

https://theathletic.com/4418802/2023/04/17/ban-the-charge-giannis-antetokounmpo-ja-morant-injuries/



Harper: Why the NBA needs to ban the charge (because it’s stupid and needs to go away)

MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN - APRIL 16: Giannis Antetokounmpo #34 of the Milwaukee Bucks is injured during Game One of the Eastern Conference First Round Playoffs against the Miami Heat at Fiserv Forum on April 16, 2023 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and or using this photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement. (Photo by Stacy Revere/Getty Images)
By Zach Harper
Apr 17, 2023
469


We’re definitely not all going to agree with this, and I want to respect the other side of the argument here.

So, if you’ve ever unironically slapped the floor and hiked up your shorts, thinking it’s going to give you some extra defensive juice on a possession, let’s slap the earmuffs on you for this one.

The charge is stupid and needs to go away. Now put your pitchforks away and let me explain.

The charge isn’t really a basketball play. I know we’ve tricked ourselves through lore and grainy black-and-white clips that this is a true sacrifice when trying to play defense. It’s really not, especially not anymore. Not with today’s athleticism. The charge is a bailout call for the defense. It’s a game of Three-Card Monte where you’re encouraging collisions as if this were some kind of goal-line stand in football. The alternative would make for a better basketball product, but the league seems so set in its ways on whether or not to change the rule (or even consider it) that it’s willing to create bad situations time and time again.

Two of the biggest stars in the NBA got hurt on Sunday because of players attempting to take charges. Ja Morant fell hard when Anthony Davis tried to take a charge in Game 1 of Grizzlies-Lakers. He hurt his wrist and his status in this series is “in jeopardy,” according to the Grizzlies’ point guard.


The other was Giannis Antetokounmpo in Game 1 of Bucks-Heat. The Greek Freak drove into the lane, Kevin Love slid under him trying to take a charge, and there was an ugly fall that left Giannis with a lower back contusion. He eventually left Game 1 and finished having only played 11 minutes.


In both instances, you have players looking to slide into position at the last second, hoping to con the referee into thinking they were in legal guarding position the entire time to gain the call. By the time Morant is taking off, Davis is still sliding into position. It’s insane to me that this would be rewarded, but I can also recognize it’s a bang-bang play that could go either way on the call. In the case of Giannis, he’s off the ground completely when Love slides into position, and his fall to the ground was contorted enough to have him land right on his back.

Yes, it sucks. Yes, collisions happen. Sure, maybe everybody is soft now. No, they don’t make them like they used to. No, you can’t stop injuries from happening. But what you can do is stop encouraging dangerous plays in which we’re trying to grift our way toward “defensive stops” instead of setting up the game for a better product on the floor.


I’m sure everybody here has questions and comments about this so I will address as many of those as I can.

But taking a charge is the epitome of defense!
It’s really not. I understand there are people with Marcus Smart and Kyle Lowry jerseys out there, but we’re rewarding people for cutting in line on a basketball court. Sliding under someone isn’t allowed when it’s a jump shooter because they can land on the defender’s foot and get hurt. It’s actually a flagrant foul these days. So what sense does it make to allow this when someone is on the move and launching themselves into the air?

So we’re just going to take away all offensive fouls?
Not at all! Offensive fouls should still exist. Lower your shoulder into a player and knock them back? That’s a foul. Push off with your arm? That’s a foul. There are still plenty of offensive foul opportunities to call. Giannis and other physical players already commit enough of them without bringing the charge into it.

A lot of these guys are just driving in recklessly, foul hunting, and hoping to get bailed out with a call!
To an extent, I agree. I’d be all for the league correcting that by making sure their emphasis on penalizing flopping from a few years ago was actually enforced. Remember when players used to get warnings and fines for flopping? Why did that go away? Why didn’t anybody want to keep that going? Did we solve flopping or do we still allow such grifting? Remember when the league was taking away offensive players jumping into defenders to draw fouls? Why isn’t that the case across the board anymore?

Same thing with foul hunting. It’s essentially a form of flopping and grifting that I’d like to see eradicated from the game. It just doesn’t feel like the spirit of basketball. Neither does taking a charge.

Isn’t it hard enough to play defense? You just think it’s cool for players to drive recklessly and be allowed to score?
It is, and absolutely not. I’m with you that the defense is already at an unreal disadvantage. Back in 2004-05, the league made changes to the game to increase scoring. They thought the game wasn’t nearly as marketable with their overly physical play, and teams like the Detroit Pistons routinely daring you to crack 70 points in a game. Hand-checking was gone. The league was becoming more and more lenient with the zone defense (or the NBA’s version of it), and so hand-checking was deemed unnecessary.

Scoring skyrocketed within a short amount of time, and we eventually got to the positionless, pace-and-space basketball that we mostly see today. The NBA has also allowed illegal screens to get the blind-eye treatment, and we rarely see consistency with that called when it is actually whistled. It’s made playing defense almost impossible in this era. I don’t want to get rid of one more tool for the defense. What I would like to do is see the league walk some of that back, give the defense some help in what they’re allowed to do, and create a version of NBA basketball that hasn’t rendered scoring completely meaningless.



What do you mean scoring is meaningless?
If a player gets 40 points, do you even sit up in your chair? Are you expecting a player who got 50 in a game to be the lead story in sports that night (non-NFL days, of course)? We had two players get 70 in a game this year and people didn’t even care two days later. The Washington Wizards had the same offensive rating this season as the revolutionary Seven-Seconds-or-Less Phoenix Suns did in 2004-05. Did you watch the Wizards play this year and think, “Wow! This reminds me of Steve Nash and Amar’e Stoudemire!” at any point? Of course you didn’t.

You know how triple-doubles kind of became just an afterthought once Russell Westbrook did it for an entire season? Scoring has headed the same way. It’s far too easy for the most skilled players in the world to score. The numbers just don’t resonate anymore, except in leading to wins and losses.

So then which rule changes would you suggest to even things out?
What a great question. I’m glad you asked. There are a few things I’d like to see, based on whether or not the league is willing to take away parts of the charge call or all of it.

1. Expand the restricted area (if we’re going to keep some semblance of the charge)

We saw this added to the game back when Stephon Marbury, Allen Iverson, and Robert Pack were the majority of the short guys trying to dunk on everybody. There has been an insane evolution in athleticism since then. Everybody dunks between their legs. Everybody looks like they’d be on trial for being a warlock if they competed in an early ’80s dunk contest. The mutation of NBA athleticism with the way players train now means we should probably rethink the dimensions on the court and the dimensions of the court.

We’ve seen people suggest widening the court because of the size, athleticism, and skill of players today. I’m for it. If we’re keeping the charge, let’s make sure the restricted area expands too. We have people taking off on one or two feet from 8-10 feet away sometimes. The restricted area isn’t really applicable when that’s the case. Maybe it just needs to come out another foot or so, but it looks like we’re asking everybody to operate on a Nerf hoop dimensions these days.

2. Eliminate the weakside charge (if we’re keeping some semblance of the charge)

Someone sneaking or rushing over to slide under a player’s path as they drive from the other side of the court does not make for a good product. Again, we don’t want to take physical contact out of the sport, but that isn’t making a play on the ball. We should be encouraging players to make a play on the ball, considering the ball is in the name of the sport.

3. Stop calling the pass-and-crash

There is absolutely no excuse for allowing a charge to be called (without a shoulder being lowered by the offensive player) when a player has already let a shot (floater, runner, etc.) go or passed the ball away before making contact with the defender trying to take a charge. The pass-and-crash turns this into some weird carnival game.

4. Allow hand-checking

Whether it’s above a certain point on the floor or below a certain area on the floor, hand-checking should come back in some form. It doesn’t mean defenders can manhandle players, but we need to create a more competitive energy and environment on both sides of the floor. There is a way to allow defenders to play defense without going back to the dark ages of final scores.

5. Loosen up verticality

If you’re going to encourage defenders to make actual basketball plays against driving offensive players, then you need to allow them more leeway when it comes to verticality. This doesn’t mean they can just hack players, but they also shouldn’t be expected to keep perfect posture and arm placement when absorbing contact.

6. Stop calling defenders for fouls when an offensive player jumps into them unnaturally

This was supposed to be an emphasis for the league, and it did happen for a little while. But we’re seeing more and more offensive players get away with it again. Natural motions only.

7. Bring back penalties for flopping and make sure offensive players are held to the same standard as defenders

We touched on this earlier too, but the flopping in the NBA doesn’t make a good product. I’d even include the swing-through moves to get fouls called. Stop rewarding the grift attempts and make people play the actual game.

You know what? I see your point. I agree.
Thank you.

Ban the charge, create some ways to help defenders without encouraging car crashes on the floor, and let’s enjoy stars being in the playoffs.

This post was edited by Izzo4Rizzo on Apr 17 2023 09:36pm

To which Hollinger wrote a response:

Hollinger: The NBA banning the charge would be a radical mistake

Apr 16, 2023; Memphis, Tennessee, USA; Memphis Grizzlies guard Ja Morant (12) drives to the basket as Los Angeles Lakers forward Jarred Vanderbilt (2) and forward Anthony Davis (3) defends during game one of the 2023 NBA playoffs at FedExForum. Mandatory Credit: Petre Thomas-USA TODAY Sports
By John Hollinger
Apr 17, 2023
148


We all saw the clip from Sunday that proves everything you need to know about the charging foul, right?

Here it is: Deandre Ayton gets the ball flying up court on a fast break and decides he’s headed toward highlight glory. Russell Westbrook is the lone defender in his way and is standing in one spot in the middle of the lane long enough to accumulate multiple parking tickets. Ayton, seemingly oblivious to his presence (and to that of a wide-open Devin Booker under the basket), just runs him over.

Charging foul. Easy call. Next play.

What? Huh? That’s not the play you were thinking of? Let’s talk about it.

I get it when people say there’s a certain type of offensive foul that they’d like to see removed from the game, especially when we saw two of the game’s biggest stars get injured on similar plays in Game 1s this weekend.

Like this play with Kevin Love and Giannis Antetokounmpo:

Getting pretty familiar with Kevin Love drawing charges 👌 pic.twitter.com/4fmI14PFnl

— Miami HEAT (@MiamiHEAT) April 16, 2023


Oh wait, that’s not what you were talking about either?

I get that we all need to talk about The Thing That Just Happened. But banning the charge seems extremely … extreme. I’d encourage people to think about what we’re really doing here. You want to ban the charge? Let’s talk about what you might prefer Westbrook to do in the play above, and then we can talk. Should he go matador style and just let himself get dunked on? Even though he’s literally right in Ayton’s way?

For that matter, how about Love in the clip above? He’s already on the strong side, navigates around Brook Lopez and gets to the spot ahead of Giannis and takes a shoulder right into his chest. What are we saying he should do there? Volunteer himself as tribute for Giannis’ poster?

The logic behind banning the charge seems sound enough: In an age when the focus on player health has taken renewed importance, it seems only logical to limit the most violent collisions to the extent reasonably possible. Rewarding plays that carry with them a heightened risk for injury seems counter to that logic. The league has taken countless other steps to try to keep players on the court, swimming against the tide of load management and increased soft tissue injuries; this would be another one.



So let me offer some counterpoints. First of all, the charge itself is a relatively uncommon play — Miami led the league by drawing a mere 98 charges in 82 games. Most other teams took far fewer; second-place Houston only took 54. We’re talking about a play that happens once a game, on average, and not all of them were the violent collisions that we saw with Ja Morant or Giannis. Yes, I get there are likely multiple of these that are near charges called as blocking fouls that had the same result, but bear with me a minute longer.

Here’s the thing: I would argue the threat of the charge is one of the few things that keeps offenses honest these days. NBA players are awesome, and the way they read the game is a constant battle of I-know-that-you-know-that-I-know-that-you-know; the reason they don’t commit more charging fouls is because, unlike Ayton above, most of the time, they’ve already anticipated what the help defender is trying to do and either adjusted their path or kicked the ball back out. That’s how the Euro step got its wings, people. In a league that has given offense every advantage and made it virtually impossible for defenses to keep up, banning the charge would likely open the floodgates toward pure ridiculousness.

Even in half-court situations, I don’t think it’s a big deal for a second defender to come over and stand in a driver’s way. Again, what’s he supposed to do? Especially if he’s a smaller player? One of the things that’s made the modern NBA so popular is that it has allowed regular-sized players to compete on a somewhat level-ish playing field with the giants, or at least required the giants to become so skilled (hi, Nikola; what up, Joel?) that they can hang with all these runts. If we essentially require secondary defenders to only be shot blockers, we lose some of that.

Even eliminating the so-called pass-and-crash — when a player takes a charge after a ballhandler flying through the air has passed the ball — seems similarly odd. What’s the distinction between a player shooting and player passing? The offensive player creamed a defender who was just standing there either way. Do we really care how he chose to discard the ball on the way?

With all that said, I think some people are likely to look at the two clips above and say, “Oh, I don’t mean that type of charge.” I think they would be inadvertently legislated out of the game anyway if the #BanTheCharge faction has its way, but let’s focus instead on the two key events from Sunday. There is a particular type of play that has drawn the ire of many and is encapsulated by the plays that injured both Morant and Antetokounmpo: A weakside defender coming over to stand in the way of a player driving to the rim.

Look, we’d all like to see more vertical contests at the rim, but again, I don’t think calling a charge on these players is rewarding a defender for “just standing there.” He moved his feet and was in position ahead of a driving player; all we’re asking offensive players to do is not truck him on the way to the basket.

On the other hand, I don’t think people realize how much it would change the game to just confer a badge of immunity on any player flying toward the rim after he’s beaten the initial defender. A lot of the drive-and-kick we see now would become drive-and-drive, and we’d likely see several unanticipated cascading effects flow from there.

As a result, to the extent this is a rule that needs changing at all, I’m much more in favor of working around the edges rather than radical shifts.

Some discussions that strike me as much more reasonable than banning the charge:

Could we extend the charge circle another foot away from the rim and thus possibly get into fewer situations in which a player is airborne toward the rim and undercut by a charge-seeking defender? This would make things slightly harder for the Kyle Lowrys of the world without radically changing help defense.
Could we make it a point of emphasis for officials that the secondary defender can’t move after the offensive player has left the floor, at which point he has no control over his direction to move out of the way? Again, this would help at the margins without wandering into great unknown.
Could we call “landing-zone flagrants” on the most egregious blocking fouls around the basket, possibly including Sunday’s play when Love undercut Antetokounmpo? Let’s protect drivers as much as we protect shooters.


I’d probably be in favor of all of those things. One of the league’s biggest responsibilities to both fans and, frankly, itself, it to ensure the health of its best players. And its best players are the ones who are in these situations the most often, at least at the offensive end. Let’s at least protect them to the extent that is reasonable and practical.

But again, I’d also encourage people to look at what we’re really reacting to, because it strikes me as a huge anomaly. I’m getting flashbacks to the time Derrick Rose and Iman Shumpert tore their ACLs on the first weekend of the 2012 playoffs and everyone and their brother had knee-jerk hot takes on the sudden rash of ACL injuries. So let me ask you: What were the other notable occasions where something like this happened in the 1,230 games that were played before this weekend? I’m sure some of you wiseacres in the comments section will come up with a few, but it hasn’t been an epidemic.

It’s scary as hell to watch giant men crash-land after vaulting themselves 30 inches off the floor, but what strikes me is how little of the NBA’s current issue with keeping players on the court relates to contact injuries. It’s almost entirely soft-tissue injuries from overuse, stress and wear-and-tear, combined with good teams’ reasonable unwillingness to put players at risk before April. Block-charge plays are essentially a total non-factor in this, setting aside an extremely eventful sequence of back-to-back games on Sunday.

So, in return for a negligible gain, we’re going to … entirely change how everyone plays defense? Really? The NBA has been great about reinventing itself and thinking outside the box in the course of its history, but this is one area where I think gradualism has a lot to recommend itself.

“Tweak the Charge” is a campaign I can maybe get behind. “Ban the Charge” trades minimal gain for potentially a lot of unintended consequences.

Great article I would love to see many of his points implemented into the game. The most irksome part about taking a charge is exactly as he said, the defender isn’t making a play on the ball and weak side help to try to con a ref into thinking you had legal guarding position is dangerous.

I like the idea of expanding the restricted area, I do think that would eliminate some of these dangerous situations around the rim from happening without impeding a player’s ability to legitimately make plays on the balll