Quote (Madmartigan @ Dec 10 2015 04:25pm)

He had hit two home runs in that game to help provide a 6-2 lead. That error was costly. :cry:
During the regular season he had flashed amazing defensive plays. The routine plays he made errors on.

But like I said, I'm going to start following WAR and appreciating all aspects of somebody's game.

Profar, now you brought up old wounds.
I was trying to get over that Game 4 loss in the 2015 ALDS!

We just needed six outs to eliminate the Royals. Unbelievable. And they went on to win the World Series. Going into 2016, I'm not even sure if the Royals are the best team. The Red Sox and Rangers (healthy Yu Darvish back) scare me more.

That guy on the MLB Network said if the Astros had Ken Giles in October they'd have won the 2015 World Series.
Well, they'd probably have eliminated the Royals in Game 4 (3-1 series wrapped up) up 6-2 in the top of the 8th.

But I'm not sure if we'd have beaten the Blue Jays in the ALCS.
The Blue Jays or Mets would have won the 2015 World Series.

Our bullpen (in that game), along with that Carlos Correa error, cost the Blue Jays or Mets the 2015 World Series title.

Quote (Genetics @ Dec 11 2015 02:51pm)

fuck... i hope the cardinals didnt max out at 160 or something. this pisses me off and makes the shelby/jenkins trade from last season look worse.


well, good news is there are plenty of OF options available: upton, gordon, fowler, etc.


i just dont think itll be enough though. we have major questionmarks at 1b/CF/RF and starting rotation.


we need at least 1 pitcher of leake/kazmir/cueto, but honestly i think were gonna need 2. every piece of our rotation is coming off injury in some sort of way.


cardinals are really dropping the ball this offseason, especially after coming out and saying they have money to spend.

Quote

WAR is Heyward’s best friend, rating him as a top-10 player. Over the past two seasons, Heyward ranks fifth in WAR, behind only Mike Trout, Josh Donaldson, Paul Goldschmidt and Adrian Beltre. Since Heyward broke into the big leagues in 2010, he ranks eighth in WAR. Much of his WAR value comes from his superlative defense—even though as a corner outfielder, he averages only 1.7 chances per game over a season.

“We never paid for defense,” said one executive who was a general manager in the 1990s. “I would tell agents, ‘We don’t pay guys for defense.’ And nobody ever tried.”

Now we have more complex and, for the most part, better ways to define what’s valuable in baseball. But we are still in a transitional phase. People don’t easily yield old methodologies such as home runs, runs batted in and where players hit in a lineup. Remember when America tried to transition to the metric system?

But we also have to pick our eyes up off the spreadsheet. Watching a guy play has value, too. That’s why we still have scouts.

To find out, I went on a mission here at the winter meetings: Get managers and decision-makers to give an honest field-view assessment of Heyward as a player, not as a WAR machine. I granted them anonymity to assure honesty. It was quickly apparent that I was having a hard time finding anybody who loved Heyward as a player. Plenty liked him enough. But mostly there was concern about paying him as an elite player.

So let me start with the one and only manager I found who did love Heyward:

“For me, he is [an impact player],” the manager said. “I say that because he can impact the game in different ways. He can impact the game when he’s not at bat. He can do that on defense and on the bases. He’s a guy that’s not a big power guy, but he could hit 25 home runs if you put him in a place like Yankee Stadium. And he’s what, 26 years old? He’s the youngest guy out there. Plus, guys like [David] Price and [Zack] Greinke are getting 200-plus million dollars and they play only once every fifth day. This guy impacts the game every day.”

Quote (xVitality @ Dec 11 2015 01:41pm)

What the hell does it matter if you can make some nice plays, for you to just fuck up on the easy ones?
That doesn't make you good.

Quote (Madmartigan @ 11 Dec 2015 16:32)

Many people believe Carlos Correa is going to become the best player in baseball in the next year or two.
Anybody who doesn't think he's a good player should stop following baseball right now.

He had a monster rookie season at 20 years old (turned 21 in September), after being called up in early June (less at-bats).
Led all shortstops in home runs as a rookie, hit more home runs and drove in more RBIs than the great Jason Heyward.

Carlos Correa's WAR as a rookie would lead you to believe he's not a great player if that's all you looked at. Not even in the top 50 right now. That's the problem. Watching him he looks like the Alex Rodriguez did at that age (A-Rod said that himself during the wild-card game), who on this exact day 15 years ago, signed the richest contract in sports at the time (10 years, $252 million).

Carlos Correa's WAR is going to look a lot more impressive in the future. As he has full seasons.
He may put up legitimate MVP candidate numbers. This guy has 40-40 potential. His defense will improve.

Much of his WAR value comes from his superlative defense—even though as a corner outfielder, he averages only 1.7 chances per game over a season.

Highlighting that part in the Jason Heyward article I posted. 1.7 chances per game doesn't seem like much.
As a shortstop you tend to field a lot more ground balls. More chances for a bad hop to eat you up.

It's not uncommon to see a shortstop field two ground balls in one inning. More than 1.7 chances per game.

Quote (revis @ 11 Dec 2015 10:10)

Madmartigan just leave the forums again please

Quote (Madmartigan @ Dec 11 2015 03:32pm)

Many people believe Carlos Correa is going to become the best player in baseball in the next year or two.
Anybody who doesn't think he's a good player should stop following baseball right now.

He had a monster rookie season at 20 years old (turned 21 in September), after being called up in early June (less at-bats).
Led all shortstops in home runs as a rookie, hit more home runs and drove in more RBIs than the great Jason Heyward.

Carlos Correa's WAR as a rookie would lead you to believe he's not a great player if that's all you looked at. Not even in the top 50 right now. That's the problem. Watching him he looks like the great Alex Rodriguez did at that age (A-Rod said that himself during the wild-card game), who on this exact day 15 years ago, signed the richest contract in sports at the time (10 years, $252 million).

Carlos Correa's WAR is going to look a lot more impressive in the future. As he has full seasons.
He may put up legitimate MVP candidate numbers. This guy has 40-40 potential. His defense will improve.

Much of his WAR value comes from his superlative defense—even though as a corner outfielder, he averages only 1.7 chances per game over a season.

Highlighting that part in the Jason Heyward article I posted. 1.7 chances per game doesn't seem like much.
As a shortstop you tend to field a lot more ground balls. More chances for a bad hop to eat you up.
It's not uncommon to see a shortstop field two ground balls in one inning. Way more than 1.7 chances per game.