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#11
Dec 4 2009 07:30pm
Quote (Jim2727 @ Dec 4 2009 06:59pm)
But the tiny-market Rays made the WS last year

23 teams made the playoffs this decade
8 different teams won the WS - including Florida, one of the bottom-feeders in payroll
14 different teams made it to the WS

NHL:

7 different teams won Stanley Cup
10 different teams reached finals

2 teams account for half the Super Bowl wins this decade, and one of those has appeared in FOUR.

How is this "fair"?


Why would you bring up the NHL? you do know they have a salary cap now right?
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#12
Dec 19 2009 01:06am
Quote (Paran0id @ Dec 3 2009 08:04pm)
1) It's supid to limit talent to make it "fair" for the weaker franchises. This just makes the game meaningless and less interesting.

2) When there is no cap in place, players are payed based on the value of their production/talent. It's basic supply and demand. When you mess with this principle, things get fucked up. What ends up happening is that the weaker players have to settle for even lower salaries because a large chunk of the teams cap space goes to the star player(s). As a result, all players end up getting paid less than their services are actually worth and this can result in a shortage of talent in the future. This shortage would probably occur amongst the lower paid players, the bench, not the star players who will still be making millions. But the overall quality of the game can only be hurt by this.

3) The goal of a pro sports team should be to build the best team possible. It's hard to think of the current Lakers or Celtics as the best teams in the world because really they are only the best teams that are possible under the limits of a salary cap, which is not really the best.


Number 2 is flawed hardcore dude...when Team A has a player who doesn't get paid much but starts producing Team B comes by and says I will pay you more than they are paying you...secondly a professional baseball player who isn't making the big bucks still makes what? easily over 200K...what are these players gonna do quit playing pro sports to make less money? :headscratch:

Caps need to be in place..If you and 10 other people were playing on the only D2 server in the world and you only had 10 fg and the other guy had 100k fg he would buy all the good eqiupment and you would be left with nothing..I bet you wouldn't play D2 very long then...CAPS ARE NEEDED


also to the very first post...
2. no cap forces owners and GMs to be more careful about big transactions - paying ungodly amounts of money for a player is a risky investment, and
If they have a cap and they overpay a guy it doesn't leave much room for them to pay other people which probably means your team isn't going to be very good and with contracts that can sink a franchise for years...
You have to be more careful with caps not to overpay...

This post was edited by Kaleb978 on Dec 19 2009 01:10am
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#13
Dec 19 2009 04:56pm
no cap = most exciting league in the world

aka english premiership
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#14
Dec 19 2009 05:18pm
Quote (Kaleb978 @ Dec 19 2009 02:06am)
Number 2 is flawed hardcore dude...when Team A has a player who doesn't get paid much but starts producing Team B comes by and says I will pay you more than they are paying you...secondly a professional baseball player who isn't making the big bucks still makes what? easily over 200K...what are these players gonna do quit playing pro sports to make less money?  :headscratch:

Caps need to be in place..If you and 10 other people were playing on the only D2 server in the world and you only had 10 fg and the other guy had 100k fg  he would buy all the good eqiupment and you would be left with nothing..I bet you wouldn't play D2 very long then...CAPS ARE NEEDED


also to the very first post...
2. no cap forces owners and GMs to be more careful about big transactions - paying ungodly amounts of money for a player is a risky investment, and
If they have a cap and they overpay a guy it doesn't leave much room for them to pay other people which probably means your team isn't going to be very good and with contracts that can sink a franchise for years...
You have to be more careful with caps not to overpay...


youve got it right.

for example the yankees can cover up a bad signing by just signing another great player to replace him.
if there was a cap they wouldn't be able to do that.

thats why #2 is wrong.
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#15
Dec 19 2009 09:25pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Dec 19 2009 05:18pm)
youve got it right.

for example the yankees can cover up a bad signing by just signing another great player to replace him.
if there was a cap they wouldn't be able to do that.

thats why #2 is wrong.


exactly man
and no cap is not the most exciting just means we will watch 2-3 teams stomp everyone else in the league
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#16
Dec 22 2009 09:31pm
Quote (Jim2727 @ Dec 2 2009 05:53pm)
I have to make an argument for why pro sports should nothave a salary cap. So far, I have:

1. fans pay to watch the game and the income from those fans should not be limited in its distribution to making their team better

2. no cap forces owners and GMs to be more careful about big transactions - paying ungodly amounts of money for a player is a risky investment, and

3. the best athletes deserve to be paid as much as a team wants to pay them - not limited by a cap.

Does anyone have some ideas I may be missing?


Athletes are already over paid, I really don't see why you would think they would need to get paid more.. no cap would mean increase in ticket prices.
Some teams can afford 100mil while others can barely get 30mil. Salary cap are needed no matter what.
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#17
Dec 23 2009 08:00pm
Quote (Rendition @ Dec 22 2009 09:31pm)
Athletes are already over paid, I really don't see why you would think they would need to get paid more.. no cap would mean increase in ticket prices.
Some teams can afford 100mil while others can barely get 30mil. Salary cap are needed no matter what.


Exactly ^_^
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#18
Dec 24 2009 12:31am
Quote (Kaleb978 @ Dec 19 2009 02:06am)
Number 2 is flawed hardcore dude...when Team A has a player who doesn't get paid much but starts producing Team B comes by and says I will pay you more than they are paying you...secondly a professional baseball player who isn't making the big bucks still makes what? easily over 200K...what are these players gonna do quit playing pro sports to make less money? :headscratch:

Caps need to be in place..If you and 10 other people were playing on the only D2 server in the world and you only had 10 fg and the other guy had 100k fg he would buy all the good eqiupment and you would be left with nothing..I bet you wouldn't play D2 very long then...CAPS ARE NEEDED


also to the very first post...
2. no cap forces owners and GMs to be more careful about big transactions - paying ungodly amounts of money for a player is a risky investment, and
If they have a cap and they overpay a guy it doesn't leave much room for them to pay other people which probably means your team isn't going to be very good and with contracts that can sink a franchise for years...
You have to be more careful with caps not to overpay...


Your logic is flawed. You're basically saying that there would not be a shortage of talent because the lowest payed players would still be payed a lot of money in your eyes. But you're completely ignoring my argument that, no matter what market you look at, be it pro sports or anything else... when you mess with supply and demand by creating artificial ceiling and floor prices (in this case, the price of players), there will ALWAYS (yes, always) be either a shortage or surplus. This can only hurt sports, not improve it.

And your D2 analogy.. also very flawed. Franchises in sports are like franchises in any other market. The successful ones are the ones that provide the best product (in this case, the best teams which attract the most interest). Sports franchises need to build their wealth over many years of smart managing to get to the top. Essentially what you're saying is that the yankees should be penalized for many decades of success to make it "fair" for weaker franchises.
By that logic, the government should put a spending cap on Microsoft, so that their competitors would have a better chance. Suppose that happened... any random person on the street would easily predict that this could only hurt the software industry. The same concept applies to sports.

This post was edited by Paran0id on Dec 24 2009 12:32am
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#19
Dec 24 2009 03:14am
Quote (Paran0id @ Dec 24 2009 12:31am)
Your logic is flawed. You're basically saying that there would not be a shortage of talent because the lowest payed players would still be payed a lot of money in your eyes. But you're completely ignoring my argument that, no matter what market you look at, be it pro sports or anything else... when you mess with supply and demand by creating artificial ceiling and floor prices (in this case, the price of players), there will ALWAYS (yes, always) be either a shortage or surplus. This can only hurt sports, not improve it.

And your D2 analogy.. also very flawed. Franchises in sports are like franchises in any other market. The successful ones are the ones that provide the best product (in this case, the best teams which attract the most interest). Sports franchises need to build their wealth over many years of smart managing to get to the top. Essentially what you're saying is that the yankees should be penalized for many decades of success to make it "fair" for weaker franchises.
By that logic, the government should put a spending cap on Microsoft, so that their competitors would have a better chance. Suppose that happened... any random person on the street would easily predict that this could only hurt the software industry. The same concept applies to sports.


and I look at this and see your flawed logic..first off to me there is a difference between the major leagues (NFL,MLB,NHL,NBA) and the government and microsoft and I don't see how can compare them in a business sense... microsoft and apple are not competing year by year for the computer chip cup, they are strictly out to make a profit not compete for championship..and you talk about supply and demand but take a person who makes league minmum in the NBA (which is $457,588 for the 09-10 season)...he completes a degree in school...now is he gets lucky he might make around 100k-200k or so in an office job..or he can go play basketball which for most people is fun for 450k a year..to me its pretty simple and he would go play basketball..I get what your trying to say but I don't think you can use conventional business principles with professional sports..sorry
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