rofl no, they ran away from the captains,they jumped off the building onto the merry because they couldnt keep fighting

and it was luffy vs a logia that couldnt use any of his powers, JUST having haki isn't enough, having haki and being trained in it and being able to fight, is an other

and giant john was preoccupied as well

and luffy didnt defeat them, he earned hancocks heart by covering the tattoo

I am totally with Black he had served you with some good points mate,

Luffy is stronger then those captains, and enel's logia may have been countered by him being rubber but it didn't stop him from using his powers.

Watch episode 308 and educate yourself on the captains. Zoro was throwing them up into the air like bean bags. Even nami took out several dozens worth. Meanwhile your argument was 1 on 1 luffy couldn't take on a captain? You have to realize how absurd it is.

http://www.watchop.com/watch/361-one-piece-episode-308-english-subbed/

All you're doing is adding absurd qualifiers to victory after victory Luffy's had against Haki users. Luffy had the ability to defeat the snake sisters easily at the end if you remember correctly, they were all despising him because he was leaping towards her to finish her as she hung on the edge. Only after it turned out he spared her did he earn their trust.

Enel was quite competent and knowledgeable in his haki.

I also rewatched the last 5 minutes of 467 and saw all of the giant fight scenes with luffy.

http://www.watchop.com/watch/626-one-piece-episode-467-english-subbed/

The V-admiral was well aware of luffy and they actually battled each other for a couple minutes with full attention given to each other. It was however, utter domination by Luffy.



Agreed, unless somebody offers some new points I think it's pretty much a closed case. I'm sorry Tr0ll but your whole argument is attempting to add qualifiers to luffy's clear cut victories.

This post was edited by Black487 on Nov 7 2010 01:25pm

his powers were useless, and he was less able to use haki than the common vice admiral

to think those captains are the best of the navy is ridiculous,


and no, luffy can;t keep up gear 2nd forever, and was only winning because of the speed increase

Luffy is much stronger than most captains. The crew did not simply run away from the captains at the bridge of hesitation, they fought and defeated many captains before jumping off. That being said there are some lower ranked marines like Smoker (captain) and Sentoumaru (science captain) that Luffy would not be able to beat as he currently is in the anime.

Luffy is probably about Vice-Admiral level currently. The giant he one shot is not a confirmed Vice-Admiral, only two members of the giant squad are confirmed Vice-Admirals. I'm willing to bet the one Luffy took down is a Rear-Admiral.

On the subject of haki, any haki user who can keep up with Luffy's speed is going to beat Luffy. Busoshoku haki users in particular who meet this criteria are very likely to be able to defeat Luffy. The ability to negate Luffy's devil fruit is deadly. Luffy gets most of his amazing endurance from the fact that the damage of normal punches are substantially reduced by the rubber fruit. When he can't sustain a long fight the way he normally does, Luffy is going to have a very hard time winning. Gear second and third already drain an incredible amount of stamina (though he is improving on this problem), if the enemy is connecting real punches Luffy is going to get very tired, very fast. Mantra or Kenbunshoku haki alone on the other hand isn't too scary. Even if Luffy gets hit frequently because his movements are being predicted, they wont do much damage. This is why Luffy was able to defeat Enel even though he was a haki user whose actual strength equaled Luffy's.

With all vice-admirals having the power of haki and some having rokushiki (or devil fruits), they have the abilities needed to equal or overpower Luffy in his current form.

Where is your proof for this?



The captains of a buster call aren't the weakest. But hey, if you want more proof, Luffy KO's some captains in this episode @ marineford.

http://www.watchop.com/watch/626-one-piece-episode-467-english-subbed/



Which fight are you referring to?

it was a vice admiral his name is giant john but i assume he was on the weaker side

my proof is that he has had no formal training


and luffy koing captins means nothing they;re more worried about the whitebeards


also as the other guy said

sentoumaru and smoker=2 captains luffy cant beat at the point in time


and the fight i was refferring to is luffy vs snake princesses


he only outsped them, he couldnt keep up 2nd gear long enough to finish either of them, and once his speed decreased again they could have finished him off

Let's first clarify about Marineford, Luffy doesn't even care about fighting in this situation as you know he has one goal and its to save his brother, he is speeding up, but did Ko'ed some Captains on the way, like the part when Admiral Lightning, sent captains to fight luffy, he did hit some of them and knocked them off, luffy's strength is compared in my opinion the strength average of a Shibukai, and this does say he can kill some vice admirals, but what I don't understand is how does vice admirals have haki? it's the king's will and not anyone has it, only Shanks, whitebeard, Luffy, Boahancock, and another one which I forgot.

This post was edited by TupacAshakur on Nov 7 2010 01:49pm

there's 3 types of haki, including mantra(sky island)


one strengthens your defense and offense,

one gives you an increased perceptive skills

and the last one is rare, which can overpower other people and knock them out