Quote (Dkmjang @ Apr 8 2010 06:18pm)

Where does it say ever in the manga plot that Gin was ever hollowfied. Don't make things up. Tousen was the only one (of the 3 capataisn that defected from gotei 13) that was hollowfied as far as the viewer knows.

I don't know whee you got the informationin manga or anime where it says ichigo is less skilled at using swords than Gin. Don't make things up.

Ichigo has beaten Ikkaku, Kenpachi, Renji, Byakuya, the bounto Kariya, Many Menos Grandes, Adjucas, Numerous Arrancar and ex-Esapadas, Grimmjow and his released form, Urriqilla released form 2. Ichigo dared to defy the gotei 13. He achieved his bankai in only a few days while the most skilled cpts needed 10 years to develop. He has become more a skilled with his hollowfication than the Vizards and he has reached the Hollowfication form #2. And do you still have doubt that Ichigo is less skilled than Gin? seriously look at all of the solid proof.

Ya true Gin became a vice cpt and then a cpt at a very young age and considered a genious. Hitsugaya was also a young genious and even younger possibly than Gin. During the fight with Gin vs Hitsugaya Gin made mention of Hitsugaya being the kind of rare genuious you can only find in a"X" amountof years at best. Not only that he has the strongest ice type zangpakto

Yohana 4th squad cpt through out the series and manga so far no one ahs ever seen her fight, how can she be the strognest cpt? she's not a fighter, she's only a powerful healer.

Old man yama (strognest fire zangpakto and strongest zangpakto in all of soul society as stated in the recent muramusa filer), Kenpachi (so strong despite not knowing his swod's name and only can use a shikai), Hitsugaya (strongest ice zangpakto and youngest cpt ever), Aizen (able to take down bankais with only kido, able to take down cpt's bankais and released espadas with a unreleased zangpakto).

Hitsugaya probabaly would have killed Gin with his shikai if he hadn't tried to kill Hinamori as a dirty move.

Quote (Dkmjang @ Apr 8 2010 09:19pm)

We can't assume who would have won that fight with gin vs hitsu. <--- Yep who knows, they were both using shikai after all, no bankais.

Don't bring fillers in here, they are irrelevant to the manga. <--- anime is based off the manga, anime fillers are also part of the anime and anime/fillers, manga are all drawn and scripted and produced by Tite Kubo. Same ideas from the ame author. If you don't care for anime/fillers that's your opinion good for you. That's your opinion alone. The reason why it was brought up because it was used to support the point of Old man Yama's power. BTW Old Man Yama also said 2 chapters ago that "there was a reason why he has served a cpt command of the gotei 13 for 1000+ years.

We don't care who Ichigo has beaten, we also read the manga. <---- Was just brought up to illustrate Ichigo's battle record. Apparantly we do care who he beats, he's the main character/ protagonist. Other wise we would have stopped reading/watching this series a long time ago.

we do not need a lecture from a random <--- random? I have know clue who you are either. Ask someone from my f list they wouldn't know who you are either. We are all randoms to somebody.
Don't turn this topic into a flame and don't be rude. This is a topic to share opinions and ideas and to discuss hobby. We are all free to share our own views and opinions. No need to include insults.

Quote (MidnightRider @ Apr 8 2010 08:53pm)

The funny thing is that despite your demand for "facts" to support what you called "made up" assumptions --- The truth of the matter is that with a manga such as Bleach its all a moot point really.
Bleach doesn't have to make sense, most of the time it doesn't. Time and time again the plot advances with a classic +1 to Ichigo's abilities..In fact, it's really the only way the plot advances.

Ichigo's skills with a sword are irrelevant. Resitsu +1's always take the cake.
In fact, it's practically Ichigo's signature that he sucks with a blade.
Ichigo's bankai's primary purpose is just to make his swordmanship adequate and he wins his fights not through superior technique, but through a higher level of, for lack of a better word "power/reitsu

Quote (five33 @ Apr 8 2010 08:20pm)

rofl

gin= same genius skill as toshiro with 100+ years experience

and unohona is simply a bad ass there are stats and statistics given by the author out side the actual manga that point to this. she is one of the oldest characters in the show besides yamato,

and as far as im concerned ichicago is a horrible swords man, im not talking about power im just talking about skill with a sword period, he is the least experience character in the manga with a sword, all he had going on was some few karate lessons, fuck i bet Ishida had more training with a sword then ichi does.

if this story was based on any logic whats so ever gin would annihilate ichi no problem.

but ichi has wtf story hacks

Quote (Dkmjang @ Apr 9 2010 11:36pm)

gin= same genius skill as toshiro with 100+ years experience  <--- really? what chapter in the manga did theyb say that? let me know I want to read that.

and unohona is simply a bad ass there are stats and statistics given by the author out side the actual manga that point to this. she is one of the oldest characters in the show besides yamato <--- bad ass? I'm not convinced. When I ask a bleach fan who do you think is a bad ass in bleach the first person they say is Kenpachi.  Old? yes she's really old.

and as far as im concerned ichicago is a horrible swords man, im not talking about power im just talking about skill with a sword period, he is the least experience character in the manga with a sword, all he had going on was some few karate lessons, fuck i bet Ishida had more training with a sword then ichi does. <---------- Ok may the other 2 comments had a hint of "some" logic but Ishda being a better swordsman now that's silly. Ishda has always said that Quincies never use any other weapon but "bows."

if this story was based on any logic whats so ever gin would annihilate ichi no problem.  <--- Bleach has no logic. If you think about it. Shinigamis aren't supposed to be able to bleed. They're only spirits, they've died already. Rukia was once a human, died in mortal realm, became a ghost (whole) grew up as there in Rukongai, became a shinigami. So they're spirits (already dead). Yet shinigami bleeds?  In seasons 1-2 no one can fly but after that people start flying and walking in mid air. Bleach has no logic sometimes but hey it's not real it's a fanatasy don't take it too seriously, all in fun.

but ichi has wtf story hacks <--- Yep refer to my above post about main chars of shounen series being wtf hax'd.


thanks for your opinions guys.

Quote (Dkmjang @ Apr 10 2010 04:37pm)

[/B]

If you watch the ep of orihime's brother vs Ichigo when Ichigo gets pushed out through the wall he hovers in mid air over the street. Even if it wasn't common they did fly a little. ya that's true never noticed until now. I guess when they later on get more control and awareness they can fly.

If you agree that Bleach has no logic than arugeing over anything is stupid because past events have absolutely no relevance on the future. no logic means no rules and no rules means we can't predict the future at all cool story bro, but that still doesn't have anything to do with why I asked shinigamis bleed and among other things. Bleach has no logic "[B]SOMETIMES"  not always but hey it'snot real it's a fantasydon't take it too seriously, all in fun. Enjoy it.


Gin has a lot more experience than toushiro and they are both geniuses. mm hmm maybe, maybe not. Matter of opinion. Nothing in manga suggests so.
Gin has more experience and is older <--- why repeat it again? Age doesn't neccessarily mean one is more "experienced" or wiser. Look at some of the lower seated shinigami in sereitei. They've been shinigami long before ichigo became a shinigami when he met Rukia, and none of them know how to use bankai yet, Ichigo has already reached that point and more so into other milestones.  Hitsugaya is tons younger than most of the vice cpts yet he's more experienced. You can apply to to real people in real life. Tons of young adults are more experienced and wsier as a person than most older generations are <---- [B]age doesn't always[/B equal more experience. If you think so your quite naive.

Thanks for your opinions guys much appreciated have a good weekend!

Quote (Dkmjang @ Apr 10 2010 06:37pm)

[/B]

If you watch the ep of orihime's brother vs Ichigo when Ichigo gets pushed out through the wall he hovers in mid air over the street. Even if it wasn't common they did fly a little. ya that's true never noticed until now. I guess when they later on get more control and awareness they can fly.

If you agree that Bleach has no logic than arugeing over anything is stupid because past events have absolutely no relevance on the future. no logic means no rules and no rules means we can't predict the future at all cool story bro, but that still doesn't have anything to do with why I asked shinigamis bleed and among other things. Bleach has no logic "[B]SOMETIMES"  not always but hey it'snot real it's a fantasydon't take it too seriously, all in fun. Enjoy it.


Gin has a lot more experience than toushiro and they are both geniuses. mm hmm maybe, maybe not. Matter of opinion. Nothing in manga suggests so.
Gin has more experience and is older <--- why repeat it again? Age doesn't neccessarily mean one is more "experienced" or wiser. Look at some of the lower seated shinigami in sereitei. They've been shinigami long before ichigo became a shinigami when he met Rukia, and none of them know how to use bankai yet, Ichigo has already reached that point and more so into other milestones.  Hitsugaya is tons younger than most of the vice cpts yet he's more experienced. You can apply to to real people in real life. Tons of young adults are more experienced and wsier as a person than most older generations are <---- [B]age doesn't always[/B equal more experience. If you think so your quite naive.

Thanks for your opinions guys much appreciated have a good weekend!

Quote (five33 @ Apr 10 2010 03:59pm)

being skills and experience with a sword is not the same as being powerful, one could be the best swords man in the show but now know his swords name and thus is junk,