double post

This post was edited by Cyba on Jan 17 2014 05:58pm

Yes I already stated antibodies don't nesscarily fight antigens, I was just saying that being less specific or exact.

And about them dentritic cells (that was bullshit on my part, I apologize, I wasn't exactly sure if they were plasma or dentritic and took the guess) gd notes on dentritic cells tho, I don't know much about dentritic cells

And ur case on MHC, I never said it was unique just to B cells, don't be twisting ma words

Lastly ur case on T cells and cytokines
I see where ur coming from but I did state t cellS releases cytokines to activate B cells. Thinking in terms of real life inside the body, ur not gonna have T cell releasing cytokines to activate a single B cell at one at a time.(I don't think ur thinking is wrong, by what I said isn't wrong either)I mean let's be realistic, I know ur trying to refute everything I say but such refute is pretty unnecessary. If you want to be a rhetorian like gorgias or polus, do it right my friend.

lol @ people being so technical..

Oh that's right, I forgot about those stakes in them.

that's EXACTLY how it works. I'm not sure who taught you immunology, but they did a pretty bad job. either that or you lazed out in that class. T cells activate that SINGLE B cell with the appropriate hypervariable domain on its B cell receptor AND THEN THAT SINGLE B cell AND T cell from which the cognate interactions occur begin to divide.The progenies of that cognate interaction undergoing affinity maturation via somatic hypermutation and isotype switching is how you get "better" affinity B cell receptors (quotes because you can get ones with worse affinity, but they'll most likely die. the ones that survive depends on which one receives the survival signal from the T cell and follicular dendritic cells of the 2ndary lymphoid organ. I believe this part of the adaptive immune response is what you were referring to when you talked about T cells activating many B cells. you probably dozed off in class and only heard the "T cells activate many B cells" part without really understanding the process).....the cytokines IL4, 5, and 6 have a very short half life which doesn't allow it to travel very far, and here's why: if the T cell is activating every B cell around it, everyone on the planet will have an autoimmune disease, and many of it. Every naive but mature B cells that enter the secondary lymph possess a BCR receptor that is unique thanks to somatic recombination. Your body doesn't generate B cells specifically in response to a pathogen, but instead your body is constantly generating B cells (billions of them a day). So if the T cell is activating every B cell in the vicinity, and remember that each one has a different B cell receptor from its neighbor, then the B cells that escape negative selection during B cell development in the bone marrow that bind to autoantigen will become activated in absence of a cognate interaction with the T cell which, as you can deduce, isn't good because it leads to autoimmunity.



not necessarily refuting everything. I'm just targeting what doesn't make any sense and your main idea.

This post was edited by Cyba on Jan 18 2014 11:17am

My intro to bio 1 professor didn't go to that extent in immunology but she did say that the T cells activated many B cells so my professor must be dumb right?
You mentioned a part where u said I was probably referring to dentritic cells o f secondary lymphoid organ, so does that mean I was right? I mean Iwas stating the main idea and u said u were even targeting my main idea but you made it seem like it was a little subtopic of main idea.
Anyways
Interesting, mind finding me a source to back you up on the T cell activating a single B cell because I tried looking it up and I could not find any sources stating what you are stating. Preferably a scholarly source.

Oh and what's a bcr receptor? Nah I'm just being a dick

i think i know what your confusion is. i don't think you know that B cells can divide/replicate and you're confused with the concept of affinity maturation. the progenies of those B cells are what will become plasma cells (some will become memory B cells too, but that occurs much more frequently towards the end of an infection) or a new B cell with a new hypervariable domain from somatic hypermutation. you should look up the clonal selection theory (i'm not sure if it was taught to you).



haha you're not wrong, you're very wrong.

In no means does a T cell die after being activated, and yes they can activate other B cells. I think you misinterpreted the instructor because the cytokines that the T cell releases to the B cell to which it binds (cognate interaction) does not travel out and activate other B cells (i think this is what you thought of). and dendritic cells of a secondary lymphoid organ? follicular dendritic cells are stromal cells not actual dendritic cells that you're thinking of. they are just named that way for whatever reason, but they're not the same thing. I can give you the pdf of my immunology textbook if you want. warning though, it's a medical school textbook. pm me your email if you want it, but the clonal selection theory pretty much describes why only 1 b cell is picked

This post was edited by Cyba on Jan 18 2014 12:13pm

Well all cells replicate and divide so I already assumed bcells replicated and divided. Other than those in the G0 state. Read my post above, I don't think u read it



U said T cells don't die after being activated and it activates other B cells.
So basically that one T cell can activate many bcells
It really activates a single bcells one at a time but it can be said that B cells are activated from a T cell correct?
I'll msg u my email, I need to sort this basic immunology stuff out. Didn't know you were in med school altough that still doesn't change what I think unless I see it from a research paper or textbooook

This post was edited by nickchoi on Jan 18 2014 12:22pm

yes i read what you wrote, but from reading where your errors are, you seem to have left off the fact that B cells can replicate. The progenies/clones of the single B cell that was activated is what T cells will subsequently and potentially activate, not the other random B cells in the area with receptors specific for something else.

btw good thing you added the ones in G0 (neurons, muscles, and adipose) lol, i was about to call you out

This post was edited by Cyba on Jan 18 2014 12:23pm