i actually like that obito change of heart thing and sends them to the other demension

I want to see more good guys get slaughtered, especially from the hidden leaf.

not gonna happen

Well, obviously fight outcomes are going to be based on relevance to the plot above anything else. But I'm not sure that there were "clear losers" in the fights you mentioned. Naruto brought his A game to Pain from moment 1. He just couldn't hold out long enough to combat the deva path or whatever. He ended up winning of course. I think Killer Bee by himself outclassed Kisame. Kisame is really strong but Killer Bee is good...like, damn good.

The fight with Bee and Kisame is irrelevant anyway since Kisame wanted to be captured... The actual fight was between Kisame and Gai.

I would like to point out, We don't know if Tobirama actually took out Izuna, Not only that, to get EMS Madara took Izuna's eyes, which already left him at a SEVERE disadvantage.

That being said Tobirama and Hashirama might possibly be equals in prestige and ninja godliness, but it is clear that Hashirama is the better fighter. That being said, Tobirama is probably the king of utility ninjas. Invented a flying thundergod and Edo tensei. I believe someone asked earlier if Tobirama could break his own jutsu. Itachi said it before, every jutsu has a weakness, and who better to know the weakness then tobirama himself. It wouldn't be a suprise to me if he broke the spell.

I look at Tobirama and Hashirama kinda like The 3rd hokage and Danzo. The shadow of the leaf of the king, that does the dirty work.

You can't consider them equals because there are to many ways you could rate these guys
Terms of combat? Hashirama
Terms of speed and assassination capability: Tobirama
Best leader? Hashirama
Best War General? Tobirama

In the end, there is no "strongest ninja", simply who excels best at the current situation.

This post was edited by OsD on Mar 29 2013 03:50pm

On the contrary do i think Madara has a change of heart after seeing the world united as it currently is, giving him hope for a peaceful tomorrow without the moons eye plan. Obito doesn't change and he becomes the 10 tails host instead of Madara. Meh. I hope that's not how it goes down since Obito alone vs everyone + Madara + 4 hokage's is a too ridiculous power increase to make sense. =/

Or - Hashirama's tale ends, we're back to the fighting. Obito and Madara can't or isn't allowed to reconnect with the 10 tails which is now going berserk. Everyone gets their butts kicked, everything looks dire. The 10 tails powers up a insane bijudama, aiming at the ninja alliance. They're lying there beaten, all about to get 1 shotted as the yonbi fires it off. In comes an epic space/time jutsu from Minato as the 4 hokages shows up. Anything from here is too exciting to imagine. The 3rd hokage in his prime was supposedly stronger than Hashirama. I'm looking forward to see him in action now that his body is of edo tensei quality. Most of all looking forward to Minato's and Naruto's meeting.

well again it was you who kept saying the 1st was way above the second(which is debatable ofc) I simply meant the 2nd figured he had a chance against a ems madara at LEAST since he doesnt know about the rinnegan + wood + w/e kabuto did. So i stressed that even if he was weaker it didnt mean he didnt stand a chance and a very good chance at that he did take out izuna. Now people can say it wasnt 1 v 1 or izuna didnt have his MS activated(although he was defeated when we actually saw his eyes) w/e point is ninja fighting is going on and the 2nd ftg's and kills izuna who seemed to be targeting the second as well.

Actually if you think about it no matter how naive the 1st actually was in attempting to kill himself what if madara had betrayed his trust and go ahead and fight he had to have thought that his brother the 2nd and clansmen could stop him? Not to mention it seemed madara in the latest chapter fought against not only the 1st but the 2nd as well as all the people surrounding(yes yes madara is beastly for doing so if he did in fact do that) but it doesnt seem like any of them had more than a few bruises cuts and some dirt.

I am sure we all hear it all the time in mangas that capturing is normally harder than killing. Pain and kisame both had the objective to capture their opponent.



Im not sure about this one butyou may be right either way if zetsu had already transformed into kisame at the point where kisame was going to cut off bee's legs before being betrayed by samehada. same with pain he fucking had naruto captured along with the entire leaf village destroyed(MINUS MAITO FUCKING GAI of course) and had a long ass convo that was interrupted by hinata etc.





not even the excel part as the kiba and naruto fight came down to dumb in the sense it was an accident. i do believe kakashi/shikimaru/shikamaru's dad being outclassed by kiba in the same would would have devised the same device naruto did, a very pungent odor.

but again until we see the 2nd in some sort of battle like how we saw the 1st vs madara we have no way of knowing exactly how much of a dud or beast he is

This post was edited by Charity on Mar 29 2013 06:07pm

who cares who is the strongest ninja.

if there was a strongest ninja it would be kiba.

We may never know for sure, but that's what the hints are for. We know that the second hokage was extremely powerful and we can assume that he would give Madara a great fight. That's fair. We don't know for sure the gaps between Tobirama, Hashirama, Izuna and Madara, but given what we do know, I think the safest assumption is definitely Hashirama >>>>> Madara >>>> Tobirama > Izuna. Madara knew that Hashirama was the ONLY person that could stand in his way which is why he engaged him in that fight. Their fights are noted to be on their own level.