That's true. On top of this, the 1st broke free of the current Edo Tensei hold while the 2nd is still bound to it.

raped at your own jutsu

chapter 386 itachi said it while explaining about the brothers and the way to obtain ems.

that can simply be older brother younger brother or hokage - jounin aka respect. good example would be A and B at least in terms of physical strength.

and again strength is relative im not even debating between the 1st and the 2nd just that the 2nd seems to think he has a chance and i do believe he does hence why i brought up the konohamaru point in which there was a vast difference in ability.

pain completely beat naruto same with kisame and killer bee but in these 2 cases the clear loser won. kiba loss to naruto due to a fart lol and neji loss to naruto(dunno how or why the byakugan couldnt see underground!)

Now back to the second i do believe the later chapter shows how his focus being else where makes him let his guard down. now this may also be the case with him wanting to fight madara so badly even if its his loss but i dont think he is that foolish.

either way this manga has proven that clear superiority in terms of battle prowess isnt the only factor. sure madara dan and maybe others have said only the first can take him but again the 2nd can just be taking a back seat

Oh, the irony. lol.
Whilst sitting in my law class, I debated more about this in my head.
Madara was under the control of Edo Tensei, and showed no effort
of breaking free; however, I do believe that his will was still intact and
he was able to move freely (instead of being completely controlled),
so I suppose that wouldn't have become an issue like it did for the
1st initially when Orochimaru was suppressing the Hokages.
If we can assume that he was unable to break free from the controls
of Edo Tensei (like the 1st did), we could also assume that his power
must be at least a little weaker compared to the 1st.

Food for thought:
Do you think the 2nd knows how to break free from his own jutsu?




I agree with you when you say fights are circumstantial. It's not enough to say that one is simply more powerful.
One thing though. The byakugan grants incredible insight and analysis capabilities along with almost 360 degree vision (safe for one minor blind spot); however,
it does not give under ground view. I don't believe that it gives the user ways of seeing beyond obstacles (IE terrain).

This post was edited by xXLiLitalyXx on Mar 28 2013 07:18pm

i was almost certain that it made everything within that range just an outline. when he did the 7 out of 8 birds whilst training i am positive he saw through the log and trees. he also saw through the dust when that sound 4 earth dude lifted up that huge boulder and kiba then sniffed him out. i dont see why the ground wouldnt be subject to that transparency.

I will take this time to talk about gai and kakashi and why gai is superior and prolly the strongest in the village(bleh probably naruto takes that). Gai definitely doesnt lack training therefore i do believe he still outpaces kakashi in that aspect. Kakashi loss to kisame and itachi(more so itachi ofc) tsunade even made fun of him for losing to 2 enemies + he had asuma and kurenai. Itachi eyes was a bit strained opted to run when gai with the same asuma/kurenai and i guess anbu on their way. Itachi i dunno if it was days weeks or mere hours later used tsukiyomi again + black fire in quick succession to escape from jairaiya so i dare say he could have fought gai and had use of both of them along with kisame. yes he only came to show danzou them whats up but still! Now even then gai ALONE went after them.. so yeah it could be a case of being overzealous but yeah! GAI>KAKASHI since they were both introduced!

This post was edited by Charity on Mar 28 2013 08:20pm

I don't vividly remember the bird exercise, but I think the birds were in plain view, just not in his immediate. I could be wrong.
Dust really isn't as solid as the ground, but I see what you're saying. I don't remember them stating that the byakugan granted
the user vision through objects, but maybe they did.

the dust is 188 and the birds 172 but no you can be absolutely correct and he couldnt but that would sorta be a major flaw imo and should be a real easy way to counter it.

Oh!!! the zetsu when they were being moved underground was it a hyuga that said they are moving and told that doton dude when to use his volcano like thing? going to check and hopefully edit this

one hyuga saw through one of shino's clansmen gourd and he also saw through a body to see deidaras clay (518)

Ok finally chapter 515 but it does mention caliber so maybe even though neji was a genius at the time he wasnt up to par yet but yeah it should be able to see underground

This post was edited by Charity on Mar 28 2013 08:47pm

Good call! I'm glad we got that cleared up!

y did madara turn his back again after the meeting?

Obito has a change of heart and as a final act of sacrifice he teleports madara and the 10-tails to his alternate dimension and then sasuke fights naruto and it's a cliffhanger