? except it wasn't reversed or balanced at all? If it was swapped roles then you could maybe say oh here is one example of how a female character was ultimately shown in a bad light and here is how a male character was shown in a positive way. But its not. its literally every male character is show in an overall negative way, female is positive. No balance. Key words " theme throughout the film'...

haven't seen secret life of pets 2, so no opinion.

You keep defaulting to that same argument while ignoring that characters of every sex were portrayed poorly in the film. No Male or female throughout the entire thing met your criteria, but you wanna just keep saying the same shit over and over. You literally just proved in this last post how biased you are... it's sjw crap ruining the movie because the man fucked up, but had it been the other way around, it doesn't matter. I even said how you'd respond and you fucking did exactly what I said you would lol, vague references to every character without a single example that actually makes sense . You know, what you've done this entire time....

It doesn't matter whether you've seen it or not. I was illustrating the point of how easy it is to find hidden meaning in shit when you're forcing irrelevant shit to fit your own biased narrative. You can do this shit with practically any movie. Probably tough for you to grasp, since you like most people, need people on the internet to explain to how exactly should feel about anything you dislike.

This post was edited by jadeoshbogosh on Sep 8 2019 03:47am

How are you worried about incompetent command? The person in charge was specially selected by Leia and did absolutely nothing to indicate she was incompetent. Literally everything the movie showed you about her indicated she could do the job... The message of "female good, men bad" is literally said by no one except those like you who are raging about it.

Maybe the message is you shouldn't like a hot headed short sighted idiot just because "he fly plane guud herp".

Fucking honestly, the genders of the characters don't matter. There was no "you didn't believe in me because I'm a woman and you're a man and I was right and all men suck" dialogue, the only dialogue was descriptive of their character traits.

Aka "I didn't trust you because you are hot headed and don't follow command" not "because you are a man".

This post was edited by Blah58 on Sep 8 2019 04:32am

You forgot that because she has short hair, she's a "liberal arts college professor", so it's automatically leftist propaganda.

I would make the argument that she should have done her job, which was leadership. She's an Admiral, not a Dictator. There's a big difference between those. If her military authority stemmed from the same place as Darth Vader's (and she could walk around physically overpowering anyone who disagreed) then she would would be a "Lord". In that case, then yes, all her subordinates should just STFU and do what she says even if they disagree.

Holdo, by contrast, failed at her job of being an Admiral. That fact that Poe was able to conjure up enough support for a successful mutiny is explicit proof of that. He performed the leadership duties of an Admiral better than she did (in that situation).

This post was edited by Kayeto on Sep 8 2019 04:12pm

Where do you draw the line between a viewer "forcing his narrative onto a story" vs. it actually being there?

Bookend examples for context:

#1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Garland_as_gay_icon - Even though gay people identified with the lyrics of the rainbow song, there's no way that anyone believes that it was intentional on the part of the filmmakers to present it as some sort of allegory for the struggle that closeted gay people faced.

#2- Ferngully - Clearly there's an environmentalist agenda behind the story of the movie

So, we've established that it's possible for there to be a real agenda and that it's also possible for viewers to see one because of their own perspective. How do you determine which case it is for any movie that comes out?

its not even worth discussing it anymore. You cant comprehend. But let me get this straight..


I simply state, the propaganda crap forced through out the movie probably had an effect on the overall outcome of the movie. You just seem to think the movie was just bad because it was bad? (acting, story, force, etc .. we get it..)

and that any perceived "propaganda" is simply just not there and complete bias? Meanwhile I and others have provided multiple examples, (like 5-6+ and others that we haven't even discussed) to support this statement.

and every one of these examples fit a certain (SJW) narrative pretty much to a tee. And you haven't really provided one example that contradicts these examples or even attempted to disprove the statement...

oh actually you did. You said Poe, which was instantly shut down (by another person, not even me) and shown that your example actually didn't work. like we actually addressed your example and had to show you why you are wrong. You just said im bias as a way to disprove me?

refer to post #75, thank you.

But also, of course it wasn't "dialogue" in the film saying 'men suck'. Like Holdo didn't say 'you should just trust me, men suck.. ugghhh' No. But rather its how the male/female characters are shown/portrayed in the movie. If you go character by character you can make a real argument that every female is shown in a positive way and every male is shown in a negative way. The other person even tried to counter this by saying Poe didn't fit this narrative. (lol) but as you even said yourself, Poe is a 'hot headed, short sighted idiot' who doesn't follow command and is arrogant. That is not a positive portrayal. Like he isn't portrayed as a hero. Finn isn't portrayed as a hero, hes a coward and when he tries to redeem himself by just dying off, the Asian chick saves him again and shes the hero. Leia is a hero, Rey is a hero. Every other male is a villian.

Also, your argument about character trait for Poe could work, that is believable perhaps. But by the same measure could you maybe attempt to describe the character traits of Luke Skywalker when we last saw him and then when we see him in this movie? Could you please attempt to maybe convince me that Luke Skywalkers portrayal in this film is merely character traits? Or just like any explanation?

This post was edited by GuyLadouche on Sep 8 2019 05:07pm

You say "conjure up enough support for a successful mutiny" as if it was more than like 3 people who has to sneak into the bridge and then immediately got put down. That isn't a successful mutiny.

Not to mention as the commander she isn't beholden to anyone, least of all to poe. If all military leaders had to explain everything to everyone in extreme detail then nothing would ever get done and the enemy would know all your plans.

She had a good plan that literally required no one except her to know about it until the last minute or else it wouldn't work.



I have no idea what you are asking about Luke, but I'll just assume the answer is "yes that happened because of his character".

Luke Skywalker... the most powerful jedi in the galaxy who represents hope and is a hero. Now hes a desolate loser, coward, cuck who wont help save the galaxy? Seems like a complete 180 of his character trait to me...

This happens to fit perfectly into the theme of showing male characters in the movie in a negative light. This theme compiled with a number of other themes fit a certain narrative that panders to a certain group of people. Now im not saying that this narrative is the sole reason the movie sucked. But what I am saying is that if they were willing to go to such lengths to include this narrative in a star wars film could it be a reason the movie sucked. My answer is yes. If so much focus was placed on including a narrative in the story rather than just focusing on writing a good star wars story, then yes it had an effect. Ive provided a number of examples that show/prove a narrative might exist in the film, its not just this male/female one.

Also I added an edit to last post if u didn't see it.