Because it turned out she had a plan all along. If you listen to the music cues that were playing at the time her plan was revealed as well as the look on Poe's face when he was learning it, my interpretation was that the movie intended the audience to think "at first I didn't trust this woman, but now I can see she was competent all along"

to reiterate: I personally disagree with that conclusion

But I still think that's the way it played out on screen (despite not actually making sense if you put some though into it)

ive been trying to explain these simple concepts to this person for the last 3 pages... but they refuse to acknowledge or just don't remember the movie.

You've been trying to explain that you disagree with the conclusion but it could be interrupted that way? Really, last I checked you were shouting about white people being prejudiced against because how dare they say rich people are bad and that Holdo was a strong woman, which is the opposite of what he just said. You've constantly dodged any question of mine that directly contradicts your backwards ass YouTube enforced opinions. Can 100% guarantee you watched the movie and disliked it, but then needed YouTube to explain to you why you didn't like it.



As stated, if this was a message they were purposefully trying to ram down the audiences throat, without purposefully starting this type of discussion, they could have done so easily. Anyone with any sort of commonsense can see Holdo as an idiot, as she clearly was. Of course Poe would feel bad in that moment, he fucked up, but that fuck-up is a direct result of her incompetence.

This one particular example aside. Do you also agree that the gambling planet was propaganda against rich people, that the movie went out of it's way to make all men seem inferior to women, or that the movie was filled entirely with super-leftist propaganda throughout?

This post was edited by jadeoshbogosh on Sep 6 2019 09:41pm

I wholeheartedly disagree with every part of that comment.

I think it was their intention to portray Holdo in an ultimately positive light while making it appear that Poe had something wrong. I think they did a poor job supporting those conclusions, but my opinion is a minority and doesn't have any bearing on the writer's intentions.

The fact that you are resistant to this seemingly basic aspect of the story has me concerned that you are not participating in this debate with good faith.

All this being said, I want to reiterate what I said in the beginning. In general, I agree with your premise that "every time a movie shows a strong woman, it isn't a feminist agenda".

Leia as a leader (ambassador/General) is great. Mon Mothma is just fine. Captain Janeway is overall more good than bad. Even though the prequels were a laughing stock, I had no issues with the way that Amidala was portrayed in her political leadership role. Holdo stands out from the crowd as an oddity in this regard. It was one of the few times that there seemed to be a connection between a character and a stereotype that exists in 2018. In a sci-fi setting, the characters were supposed to look and feel foreign to us (for the most part).

This post was edited by Kayeto on Sep 7 2019 03:53am

In the theater I thought she was a fucking idiot and was honestly shocked after hearing how many people thought this representation was somehow supposed to be a strong liberal woman. While this singular event is the most possible form of pushing an agenda in the film and I will concede that there could have been a message here, albeit a poorly done one, I still remain firm in my stance that the movie isn't heaped in leftist propaganda and that the movie failed due to horrible/lazy writing, bad acting and Disney's refusal to acknowledge that the same formulaic shit for Marvel isn't necessarily going to work for every franchise, e.g., live action reboots and the SW franchise, which was the entire basis of my argument from the get go. I've stated multiple times that there of course will be some small to large imprint of the director's ideals on their work, but the comment I originally responded to, was one claiming that leftist propaganda was the only thing that made this movie bad and that the newest one will be good without that, which is moronic.


This post was edited by jadeoshbogosh on Sep 7 2019 04:21am

…

never claimed leftist propaganda was the only thing that made the movie bad. I simply said, probably 4 times, that if they made such an emphasis to include it in the movie that it might have/could have/ probably had a direct effect on the movie being bad.

If they focus so much on including these ideals in a star wars movie, how could it possibly effect the story? I mean can Casino Planet pretty much be completely cut out of the movie? Because that whole scene seems to be just a place where the "worst kind" of people go (rich) to take advantage of others and abuse animals and have young white male cops beat up the "good guys"... I mean like if we don't have to include all those things in a story, and we can start with a brand new direction.. who knows where it may go. Probably not directly down the toilet which was where Casino Planet took the film.

Poe was 100% in the wrong in the movie. Obviously he is framed as the character we are supposed to agree with, but that doesn't make him correct.

You can make the argument that the new girl in charge should have brought him into her confidences, but she was still in charge and he should have listened to her.

Not talking about if either character was smart or stupid or well written or not, because I don't care. Simple fact is they are an army in an active war, and screwing with the chain of command in such a way is a great way to get people killed.

Poe never follows command and he shouldn't even be in the resistance, but he is the best pilot ever so they can't boot him out.

This post was edited by Blah58 on Sep 7 2019 04:07pm

k... that's an interesting view. But as a viewer I was kinda relieved when he tried mutiny, was worried about incompetent command. Which is also a good way to get people killed and possibly decide the fate of the galaxy, but I digress... we then learn Poe was ultimately shown to be an arrogant uninformed male who should just follow his female leader all along...


I mean if it wasn't a popular character from the first film going against a random liberal arts studies professor picked up from a local university. And the popular character in the end being made to look like an idiot. Or if the genders roles were just swapped where it was a male leader, female mutineer. Then it wouldn't fall directly into the SJW message, which seems to be a theme throughout the film. That is what we were discussing. Not whether or not mutiny is warranted.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. If the exact scenario had the genders reversed, there's no message and everything would have been just fine. I know you won't ever understand how hilarious this post was, but thank you. Don't worry though, I know exactly how you'd respond, "it's the theme of liberal propaganda", like saying slavers and dictators are bad and all those other non specific generalizations you made, brilliant argument.

Your other post isn't even worth responding to.

Out of curiosity, I attempted to watch a movie in the same type of manner that you apparently do. It was pretty entertaining, so I thought I'd share the results.


I tried to watch The Secret Life of Pets 2 last night, but all the rightist propaganda just ruined it. Maybe if they leave that shit out in the third one, it'll have a chance of being good again.

They pair up the only two minorities in the entire movie and make them go on a mission to rob a legitimate business man, while also constantly pushing that their both loud mouthed cowards. Then there's the reoccurring theme of city people (predominantly liberal people) only having imagined problems, that could be easily fixed by spending a few days with honest hard working country folk and also that mental illness is something that should be shrugged off or dismissed, since it can be fixed by just getting over it. Not to mention them making every female character shrill, stupid, or a bitch, while all the WHITE men were heroes and then they drive their fucked up propaganda parade home by turning the already stereotypical thieving big mouth black guy into a cross-dresser, in an attempt to make the LGBTQ look bad. Absolutely appalling and anyone who can't see this clear prejudice is obviously in denial.

I'll admit I had a lot of fun with that little experiment. It's crazy how easy it is to turn absolute fucking nonsense into a huge problem when you're purposefully trying to be offended about everything. Only a complete nutjob would try to force shit like this into every little thing and then go to the internet to listen to other equally insane people point out other shit they completely missed, but that helps them further justify their own triggeredness after being overly hyped for a bad movie.


On a side note, pretty solid kid's movie. Not as good as the first, but much better than the last 4 or 5 new movies I've watched with my son.