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Dec 21 2015 11:44am
Quote (FroggyG @ Dec 21 2015 01:08am)
When Kylo Ren smashes Rey into the tree, why doesn't he just do that a few more times with both her and Fin? Or like... toss them 100 feet into the air and let them die from the fall, etc.

Using force techniques like this require strong concentration. A rookie like Rylo Ken would not be able to do this in the middle of a lightsaber battle, let alone consecutively over and over.


Well he was able to hold a blaster shot for minutes while carrying on a conversation and going about his business, and it didn't look like he was even trying that hard. It seems force telekinesis is very easy for him, you'd think tossing a person around would be trivial.

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Why does Deathstar 2.0 have such an obvious and poorly defended weak spot AGAIN? Here's a super critical facility, the destruction of which will blow up the entire planet, and it's guarded by 2 storm-troopers.

Everything has an engine or somewhere to draw energy from. And I wouldn't say it was poorly defended since they had an epic battle to get inside, which was also only made possible by sabotage from the inside.


What epic battle? Han Solo and Co. just walk inside and shoot the couple storm troopers at the entrance. After that the entire place is completely empty with no alarms, defenses, guards, anything. This is especially strange considering that the First Order has a problem with traitor storm-troopers. They know which signs to watch for with Fin, they already have a "re-conditioning" program in place, nobody is surprised about his behavior. It's all business, an administrative process they apparently go through regularly. The captain remarks that this was just his first offense and that's why they didn't make a big deal out of it, implying that it's a common occurrence and others are repeat offenders.
So given that you have traitors running around on the surface of the planet, why would you leave such a critical facility so poorly defended from ground troops? A single traitor could walk in, take the two dudes inside by surprise by pretending to be there on official business, and basically take out the entire First Order single-handedly. One guy!

Interestingly enough, they do have anti-air batteries and combat-ready TIE fighters. So they weren't even relying on shields to hold off attackers, they just completely and utterly ignored ground troops specifically.

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The super weapon is built into a planet and works by consuming an entire nearby star. How would that work? Wouldn't consuming the star mess up the orbit of every planet in the system, including the one with the weapon, flinging them around in weird, unpredictable ways?

It's built into a planet but has its own propulsion.

Even if that's true (is building a hyperdrive for an entire planet even possible? Why bother with shooting sun energy, when you can just put engines on planets and ram them into the enemy planets?), sucking in a sun would make this planet the center of gravity for the entire system. So you'd have planets, satellites, space debris of various sorts suddenly crashing into you. Not to mention that gravity on the planet's surface would increase 100-fold, making it impossible for anyone to walk around, crushing structures and trees, etc.

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When Han Solo gives Rey the blaster and she's like "you just pull the trigger, right?" and he rolls his eyes and says sarcastically "there's a little more to it than that, you have a lot to learn", what the hell is he talking about? You DO just pull the trigger, that's all there is to it. And she proves it by shooting a bunch of troopers with it. On that note, how is someone who has never in her entire life used a gun before suddenly 1-shotting every enemy she sees with a dinky pistol, but troopers trained from birth for literally decades can't hit shit with a top-of-the-line rifle?

There is definitely more to it than that. Aiming and breathing properly, for example, for greater accuracy. For part 2... she's a fucking Jedi.

Aiming? Well obviously you have to aim, duh. He's telling someone how to operate a blaster, not teaching a caveman what this shiny weird-shaped stick is. She obviously understands what weapons are and how aiming works in general, especially considering the shenanigans they pulled when they stole the Falcon. She aimed an entire damn ship with a jammed cannon at a TIE fighter. Granted, he wasn't there to see it, but still. Telling a non-retarded person that just hasn't used a gun before that "pointing the small end at the enemy" is an important part of using a gun is just insulting.

Besides, shouldn't Rey have been like "Well.... what else IS there? Don't just hand me a blaster that I clearly don't know how to use and just walk away, how the hell am I supposed to defend myself with this?" But no, Han Solo just gives her a weapon, tells her she needs to learn how to use it, but doesn't take the literally 10 seconds it would take to explain that you need to aim at people and thus teach her how to use it.

Also, she's not a Jedi. She is force-sensitive, sure, but that doesn't make you a Jedi - you need training and studies for that. It's also a lazy "Magic!" explanation.

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Does storm-trooper armor actually protect the wearer in any way? Seems weird to invest so much money and time into raising perfect killing machines from birth and then send them into battle wearing molded plastic that does more harm than good. I'd rather go naked, at least you'll have unrestricted movement.
It protects from lower level threats that they would run into on low technology planets. For instance, they mentioned smoke in this movie particular.


So it's completely useless against their main enemy - the Resistance.
Also, they specifically said that it won't protect from gas, which is just weird. Gas masks are really low-tech technology and easily made, it would be an obvious choice to incorporate one into the armor. Especially if they do filter smoke, so it's not like they never thought about cleaning the air the trooper breathes. According to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_armor the armor has "air supply hoses" and enables the wearer to survive in extreme environments, including limited exposure to space. Why would poisonous gas affect them?

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How has Han Solo never tried Chewbacca's bowcaster in the 20 or whatever years they've been together? Also, aren't bowcasters supposed to be essentially unusable by humans? Has Han Solo ever used the scope on his pistol?
He loves his blaster. Don't need a scope when you're that skilled. NoScope.

Clearly doesn't love it that much, falls in love with the bowcaster instantly and keeps asking to use it again. And according to Star Wars lore, bowcasters require immense strength to use, far more than humans have.

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When Fin and Poe escape, Poe says that he must go back to Jakku for his droid and they can't go to the resistance until they find it. After they crash, he somehow ends up back with the resistance in time to lead the attack on Maz's castle. Why isn't he still on Jakku looking for the droid?
Could have witnessed the battle where Fin escapes off the planet and then went straight to the resistance. There's actually a lot of possible reasons to explain this one.

Seems unlikely. Even if he just happened to be in the right place at the right time to see them run into the Falcon and take off (which would be quite the coincidence - finds them just at the right time, too far away to escape with them but close enough to see them escape despite the chaos of battle), he'd have no reason to believe that they could fight off several TIE fighters and get off the planet. It's just Fin, who has 0 experience in a ship and Poe knows that, and some random chick in what appears to be a garbage freighter against experienced pilots in combat fighters. If anything, Poe should have assumed that they'd get shot down and he needs to find the wreck to get the map.

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Dec 21 2015 07:10pm
I agree with some of the criticism that the movie did a bad job of informing the audience how skilled Kylo Ren was supposed to be. Early on, the supreme bad guy made a comment to the effect of "even you, the leader of the Knights of Ren, is still vulnerable to the temptation of meeting your father" etc. It really gave the impression that he was a seasoned veteran in the ways of the Dark Side. Yet when Fin and Rey got into combat with him, he wasn't notably better than them. In fact you could even say Rey beat him the first time she picked up the weapon.

I disagree with people bashing the prevalence of the comic relief lines. The quality and frequency of these lines felt totally natural to me.

Conceptually, I don't have a problem with Ep7 being a remake of Ep4 with the names shifted around. That being said, I think a few plot points were copied a little too directly for my tastes. Sending fighters to target the weak spot of the superweapon was taking it too far. Also, "droid with important data gets dropped on desert planet and both sides are looking for it" was another similarly that was just too strong. They could have accomplished the same essential plot mechanics without using the exact same pieces.

This post was edited by kayeto on Dec 21 2015 07:15pm
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Dec 21 2015 07:16pm
Quote (kayeto @ Dec 22 2015 01:10am)
I agree with some of the criticism that the movie did a bad job of informing the audience f how skilled Kylo Ren was supposed to be. Early on, the supreme bad guy made a comment to the effect of "even you, the leader of the Knights of Ren, are vulnerable to the temptation of meeting your father" etc. It really give the impression that he was a season veteran in the ways of the Dark Side. Yet when Fin and Rey got into combat with him, he wasn't notably better than them. In fact you could even say Rey beat him the first time she picked up the weapon.

I disagree with people bashing the prevalence of the comic relief lines. The quality and frequency of these lines felt totally natural to me.

Conceptually, I don't have a problem with Ep7 being a remake of Ep4 with the names shift around. That being said, I think a few plot points were copied a little too directly for my tastes. Sending fighters to target the weak spot of the superweapon was taking it too far. Also, "droid with important data gets dropped on desert planet and both sides are looking for it" was another similarly that was just too strong. They could have accomplished the same essential plot mechanics without using the exact same pieces.


maybe, in the star wars universe, droids ARE actually important data holders.

As we know so far, Kylo is the only light saber wielding person on the "dark side." Just because he is a "leader" doesn't make him extra special. He is just unique in the first order because he uses the force and has a light saber.

This post was edited by stupidkid282 on Dec 21 2015 07:18pm
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Dec 21 2015 07:21pm
Quote (stupidkid282 @ Dec 21 2015 06:16pm)
maybe, in the star wars universe, droids ARE actually important data holders.

As we know so far, Kylo is the only lightsaber wielding person on the "dark side." Just because he is a "leader" doesn't make him extra special. He is just unique in the first order because he uses the force and has a lightsaber.



Canonically Darth Maul is not dead so...
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Dec 21 2015 07:35pm
Quote (dirTyMan @ Dec 22 2015 01:21am)
Canonically Darth Maul is not dead so...


That doesn't matter and is not relevant to the movie...

let's use some logic here...it's not that hard..



all we have is what is presented to us and that's what we can analyze.



if Darth Maul comes back, GREAT, but that's ambiguous.

This post was edited by stupidkid282 on Dec 21 2015 07:35pm
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Dec 21 2015 07:48pm
Quote (stupidkid282 @ Dec 21 2015 08:16pm)
maybe, in the star wars universe, droids ARE actually important data holders.

The data was essentially in a flash drive. That flash drive could been stored in any number of ways and still advanced the plot in the same essential way. Could have thrown it in a plastic bag fed it to a Tauntaun so people have to cut it open and search around.

Quote (stupidkid282 @ Dec 21 2015 08:16pm)
As we know so far, Kylo is the only light saber wielding person on the "dark side." Just because he is a "leader" doesn't make him extra special. He is just unique in the first order because he uses the force and has a light saber.


You could be right, but the movie just gave a different impression. Only he and the Admiral were seen having private conversations with the Supreme Leader. It made me think that there was something significant about Ren's level of experience.

This post was edited by kayeto on Dec 21 2015 07:48pm
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Dec 21 2015 07:50pm
It's implied that Ren trained with Luke as a child and then shortly after went and trained with Snoke. To me that shows he's had a lot of training.

However, I see where stupid is coming from in the fact that we really don't know how much training he has or if snoke is even a force wielder.

I do believe Snoke is Darth Plagueis however and not sure if that will revealed in the next movie or the last (if he is Plagueis)
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Dec 21 2015 07:55pm
Quote (kayeto @ Dec 22 2015 01:48am)
The data was essentially in a flash drive. That flash drive could been stored in any number of ways and still advanced the plot in the same essential way. Could have thrown it in a plastic bag fed it to a Tauntaun so people have to cut it open and search around.



You could be right, but the movie just gave a different impression. Only he and the Admiral were seen having private conversations with the Supreme Leader. It made me think that there was something significant about Ren's level of experience.


but GOOD droids are intelligent and clever ;)
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Dec 21 2015 08:11pm
Quote (dirTyMan @ Dec 21 2015 08:50pm)
However, I see where stupid is coming from in the fact that we really don't know how much training he has or if snoke is even a force wielder.


I agree that we don't know. The movie was not clear, it only gave us impressions. What I am trying to say is that I felt like it gave conflicting impressions at different times.

If Rey's natural affinity to the force is stronger than Kylo's, that's fine. But so much stronger that she can beat him the first time she tried using a lightsaber? Seems to be a little confusing to me.

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Dec 21 2015 08:32pm
Quote (kayeto @ Dec 21 2015 07:11pm)
I agree that we don't know. The movie was not clear, it only gave us impressions. What I am trying to say is that I felt like it gave conflicting impressions at different times.

If Rey's natural affinity to the force is stronger than Kylo's, that's fine. But so much stronger that she can beat him the first time she tried using a lightsaber? Seems to be a little confusing to me.


Well through the entire movie they showcased how strong the NEW UPDATED bowcaster was, that wasn't the one from EPs 4-6 , it was way better. Ren took it right in the liver it looked like.

They also showcased Rey dropping 2 trained stormtroopers like nothing , and they had the flashback where it looked like she was trained until she was abandoned. So after looking at it logically it makes sense that she could hold her own against him.

I don't like however, that she became so well versed in the force so quickly though. Luke couldn't force grab his saber until the beginning of the second movie and he had already slight training from obi-wan at that point.
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