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Aug 14 2013 02:00pm
Quote (pwb3 @ Aug 14 2013 12:55pm)
Why do you hate her so much? I don't understand. She seems like a nice person to me, a compassionate lady who worries a lot about her children. The real bitch is Cersei. Now that's one cunt I'd love to facesmash.


just watch any episode with her in it where she has any sort of interaction or reminiscence of jon snow and you'll understand why I can't stand that lady


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Aug 14 2013 04:09pm
Quote (Vantre @ Aug 14 2013 04:00pm)
just watch any episode with her in it where she has any sort of interaction or reminiscence of jon snow and you'll understand why I can't stand that lady


Your argument would apply more strongly to Viserys, yet they kept him in over Catelyn.

I hate her, but at least she was more likeable then Viserys. She was aligned with the "good side" (I use that term very loosely) and she had positive relationships with other likeable characters. Cat's mistakes make her pathetic, not evil.
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Aug 14 2013 06:23pm
Quote (kayeto @ Aug 14 2013 03:09pm)
Your argument would apply more strongly to Viserys, yet they kept him in over Catelyn.

I hate her, but at least she was more likeable then Viserys. She was aligned with the "good side" (I use that term very loosely) and she had positive relationships with other likeable characters. Cat's mistakes make her pathetic, not evil.


I agree that Viserys is also a scum bag, but at least he plays a villain role. And some people like the "villain" characters best, and miss them the most when they are gone. Cat, on the other hand, is as you said - pathetic. Not likeable by villain-loving people while at the same time equally as unlikeable by people who find the "good" characters in the series to be their favorites.

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Aug 16 2013 10:57pm
Quote (Vantre @ Aug 13 2013 11:13pm)
The reason that they didn't include Catelyn is because nobody likes her. The only reason I wasn't upset by the red wedding is because they got rid of her. And George RR Martin, living up to his status of scum bag, brings her back later in the series. That is honestly the biggest tragedy of all...

she is one of my most hated characters in the series/show


i shouldn't have strayed so far into this thread >.> her coming back has just completely pissed me off bitch needs to know her place and stay dead....

i hope they change that part in the series its possible !

This post was edited by 672 on Aug 16 2013 10:57pm
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Aug 17 2013 12:23am
Quote (672 @ Aug 17 2013 12:57am)
i shouldn't have strayed so far into this thread >.> her coming back has just completely pissed me off bitch needs to know her place and stay dead....

i hope they change that part in the series its possible !


If you don't know exactly how she "comes back" then you might not find it all that disappointing...
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Aug 17 2013 08:27am
I don't see Viserys as a villain at all. I see him as an extremely tragic figure. He saw his entire family brutally murdered as a little child, and he barely managed to escape himself. Then he spent most of his childhood in the streets with his baby sister trying to scrape for food and survival, struggling even harder to protect her and keep her alive, having been told that he has to go back to Westeros to become a king. Later he's taken in by Illyrio, but that's only because Illyrio needs to use him and Dany to fulfil a plot he has running with Varys. Viserys is an asshole, sure, but that's only because he never learned how to behave, all he knows from his childhood is that he has to go back and become a king, yet doesn't even understand why. He's just playing out this role that's been instilled in him since his miserable childhood. By the time GoT starts, he has already gone mad, doing whatever he can to become a king, mostly by shitty means. Still, if you know how he got to his position, your heart really goes out to him.

Catelyn is also tragic in her own sense, but I think she's at least stronger than Viserys (madness doesn't truly claim her until the last seconds of her life, when she starts clawing her eyes out and going bonkers). She basically had her husband and most of her kids ripped away from her in a short amount of time. I'm not a mother, so I can't presume to know how that feels, but I really can't blame her for that politically stupid move of freeing Jamie for her girls. She has her flaws (a la the way she treats Jon), but they're really nothing compared to her strengths. She's also very much Ned's wife, because when Renly tells her the offer he made Ned, she basically tells him the exact same thing Ned did before he could even tell her what Ned said. She gives Robb solid advice, she gave Renly solid advice, all in all, she really held things together really well considering what she went through (unlike Cersei who is already crazy because of something a fortune teller told her when she was 8). So I think Catelyn is a great character, and whenever I read her chapters I really strongly feel and sympathize with her.
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Aug 17 2013 10:04am
Quote (AnomanderRake @ Aug 17 2013 09:27am)
I don't see Viserys as a villain at all. I see him as an extremely tragic figure. He saw his entire family brutally murdered as a little child, and he barely managed to escape himself. Then he spent most of his childhood in the streets with his baby sister trying to scrape for food and survival, struggling even harder to protect her and keep her alive, having been told that he has to go back to Westeros to become a king. Later he's taken in by Illyrio, but that's only because Illyrio needs to use him and Dany to fulfil a plot he has running with Varys. Viserys is an asshole, sure, but that's only because he never learned how to behave, all he knows from his childhood is that he has to go back and become a king, yet doesn't even understand why. He's just playing out this role that's been instilled in him since his miserable childhood. By the time GoT starts, he has already gone mad, doing whatever he can to become a king, mostly by shitty means. Still, if you know how he got to his position, your heart really goes out to him.

Catelyn is also tragic in her own sense, but I think she's at least stronger than Viserys (madness doesn't truly claim her until the last seconds of her life, when she starts clawing her eyes out and going bonkers). She basically had her husband and most of her kids ripped away from her in a short amount of time. I'm not a mother, so I can't presume to know how that feels, but I really can't blame her for that politically stupid move of freeing Jamie for her girls. She has her flaws (a la the way she treats Jon), but they're really nothing compared to her strengths. She's also very much Ned's wife, because when Renly tells her the offer he made Ned, she basically tells him the exact same thing Ned did before he could even tell her what Ned said. She gives Robb solid advice, she gave Renly solid advice, all in all, she really held things together really well considering what she went through (unlike Cersei who is already crazy because of something a fortune teller told her when she was 8). So I think Catelyn is a great character, and whenever I read her chapters I really strongly feel and sympathize with her.


Let me tell you why Viserys is a villain. You need look at it from a different perspective and reverse their roles to truly understand what the writer was trying to make the character out to be...

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.


JK JK JK

:)

This post was edited by The_Doves on Aug 17 2013 10:09am
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Aug 17 2013 03:13pm
Quote (AnomanderRake @ Aug 17 2013 10:27am)
I don't see Viserys as a villain at all. I see him as an extremely tragic figure. He saw his entire family brutally murdered as a little child, and he barely managed to escape himself. Then he spent most of his childhood in the streets with his baby sister trying to scrape for food and survival, struggling even harder to protect her and keep her alive, having been told that he has to go back to Westeros to become a king. Later he's taken in by Illyrio, but that's only because Illyrio needs to use him and Dany to fulfil a plot he has running with Varys. Viserys is an asshole, sure, but that's only because he never learned how to behave, all he knows from his childhood is that he has to go back and become a king, yet doesn't even understand why. He's just playing out this role that's been instilled in him since his miserable childhood. By the time GoT starts, he has already gone mad, doing whatever he can to become a king, mostly by shitty means. Still, if you know how he got to his position, your heart really goes out to him.

Catelyn is also tragic in her own sense, but I think she's at least stronger than Viserys (madness doesn't truly claim her until the last seconds of her life, when she starts clawing her eyes out and going bonkers). She basically had her husband and most of her kids ripped away from her in a short amount of time. I'm not a mother, so I can't presume to know how that feels, but I really can't blame her for that politically stupid move of freeing Jamie for her girls. She has her flaws (a la the way she treats Jon), but they're really nothing compared to her strengths. She's also very much Ned's wife, because when Renly tells her the offer he made Ned, she basically tells him the exact same thing Ned did before he could even tell her what Ned said. She gives Robb solid advice, she gave Renly solid advice, all in all, she really held things together really well considering what she went through (unlike Cersei who is already crazy because of something a fortune teller told her when she was 8). So I think Catelyn is a great character, and whenever I read her chapters I really strongly feel and sympathize with her.


I absolutely blame her for freeing Jaime.

Thousands of Northern men were asked to leave their families for an undetermined amount of time, fight in a war and possibly die. Mothers were asked to send their young sons off and possibly die as well. Being unwilling to do what herself that which was asked of her people makes her a bad leader.

It undermined the war effort so severely that even if she had gotten her daughters back from it, they were that much more likely to end up being conquered by the Lannisters eventually anyway. Let's say, hypothetically, Catelyn was offered the choice of getting her daughters back and spending a year or two with them before eventually losing the war to the Lannisters and having the girls spend the rest of their lives as "highborn married prisoners". I think she probably would have taken that deal. She prioritizes her own desire to spend time with her children over providing a good world for them to live in after she is gone. That makes her a bad mother.

Despite all those, if it had been an sure chance to swap Jaime for the girls, I still might not have blamed her. But instead, she freed him which was a guaranteed major betrayal of the kingdom she was supposed to protect in exchange for a pipe dream that had no chance of ever happening.

It's the madness of grief. At least Aerys had legitimate reasons (Targ genetics/schizophrenia) to justify his madness.
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Aug 17 2013 03:14pm
Catelyn wasn't even memorable...
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Aug 17 2013 03:47pm
Quote (Flameyes @ Aug 13 2013 09:33pm)
cuz no one misses him ^^


I Do. Renly Was A Turd. StaNnis Is A TurD. Robert Just Got Drunk And Fucked Whores.
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