Well, it's just an issue of pointing out how you arbitrarily try to draw a cause and effect relationship without any facts or support. But thanks.

No?... I have all those facts. I was making a great living in the music industry, (still am actually) when Apple came along and changed the audio format. I was there when all the singer song writers said, "Hey I can play at your club for free!" I know what I know, that's all. I know you don't need auto tune to make a good disc, write a great song or even do something as simple as sing. The cause was this:

Sony doesn't make any money on CD's. They never had. They make their money on Boom boxes and CD players and discmen. The 'cool' way to listen to tunes wasn't on your cassettes, (which you could duplicate) it was on CD, (which you couldn't duplicate.) So in order to do this, you gotta buy the player. When Apple came along and reformatted to MP3's and made the songs transferable, you didn't need the players anymore. So how does that affect the music? Easy! Sony was the funding for the musicians one way or another and since they lost all their money, the musicians lost all their work.

No problem right! I'll just get a gig at a local club. $200 a night for each guy in the band. 3 guys in the band. Only $600 for clubs to advertise "LIVE MUSIC!!!" But then the cost of guitars came crumbling down when instrument productions moved to China and every Joe Blow could own a guitar. That's great if you ask me buuuuuuuuuuut.... When Joe Blow learns a handful of tunes on his piece of shit guitar, he approaches the clubs and says, "Hey man, I'll play at you're club for $50! I just love to play, I don't care about money." So what happens next? The musicians once again lost financial support. No money in records, (because they aren't getting made anymore!) and no money in live music, (which 80% of solo 'singer/songwriters suck so bad!) cause the gigs are taken up by the newbs hacking out, out of time, out of tune, autotuned guitars and voices for $50.

So they still advertise "LIVE MUSIC."... but I don't see anyone at those clubs. And I still see "Album of the year" But I don't know anyone with their disc's. So yea, while every Joe Blow in town can buy a squire for $120 and call themselves a guitarist , a tone port for $120 and call themselves an engineer, I still don't see music coming out of any of those avenues. As I said, people want music, not something someone else markets to you as music. Not to say the stuff they're marketing isn't satisfying or good. I just don't see it as what they sell it as.

I've given lectures before on this stuff for people at Universities and private students but like you, no one listens. Kinda like a tree in the forest except it's more like in the middle of a room full of people.

Where are the facts?

Ugh... Sony went nearly 10 years of profit loss until they started focusing all their finances on video games. Everyone and anyone uses an Ipod to listen to music. I don't know anyone under the age of 20 with a discman! Don't know where you are but my town is about 80% Solo singer/songwriter. Most of them sound like they just figured out minor chords sound different than major chords and can't keep time.

I mean Jesus... facts? That's what happened! That's the way it is! When was the last $1,000,000 record deal? What happened to guitar heros? Why is MTV full of children? Why are the biggest selling ringtones Chocolate Rain and Pants on the ground? Is that music? Or is that funny... entertaining maybe? I don't know what you want to hear dood! I don't need autotune. There's a different game being played out here.

So...the fact that more people are trying to be musicians, and many aren't great, means that music is dying? Yet, more talented and creative musicians exist now than ever in spite of all the shitty wannabes?

You're giving me a critique of mainstream music, and your experience with shitty musicians nowadays, as if they didn't exist previously. Then your last statement comes out of the blue and has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.

i met the guy that did the remix of sean paul and blu cantrells "breathe" for sony
they paid him £5000 and sold 750,000 copies
now im pretty sure there must be some profit in there

You were the one accusing me of being an elitist. You said I listened to music with auto tune and I replied no. Then it was you who criticized. I said it before and I'll say it again, I call it like I see it, not determine it's worth or quality. And once again the comment of "as if they didn't exist already" is inaccurate. People who weren't very good or non artistic or even students have always existed. Just not on the stages or on the cover of magazines like now. People listen and watch this stuff cause it's fun or for an even more basic pleasure, they just like it. That's fine. You can like what you want, but just cause there's a guitar on the stage, in your hands, doesn't make you a musician or instrumentalist. If I throw paint at the canvas, does that make me an artist? Music, song and entertainment are three different things but don't hand me 50 cent and tell me it's Mozart. Don't give me Thomas Dolby and tell me it's cool. Just give it to me for what it is.

Sean Paul = Entertainer

Loads of money in the entertainment industry! I advise you to get into that line of work if it's money you want.

i read this the other day from someone that had been to berklee:
money is proof your doing something of value to other people

True.

Lol, you like to say 'ill conceived', yet I REALLY doubt you know what it means.