Quote (HERETICtheory @ Jun 17 2012 05:49pm)

I've been using Live 8 since January and loving it.  Before that I used FL Studio for about 5 years and knew it like the back of my hand.  It was great but very limited in what I really wanted to get out of my music making experience and it took me some time to realize that I could do so much more. 

Lately I have been composing in Ableton and then mixing/mastering in Logic.  I don't know if the summing algorithm in Logic is really better than Ableton's or not but I feel I can hear a difference.  There's been a million threads and arguments about it and I really believe the only difference is what sounds best to YOU.  But I like Logic for mixing because it feels more solid or something, like it's really built for powermixing.  Ableton just doesn't have the same rigour it seems.  But Ableton is unparalleled for twisting and manipulating audio in my opinion.  Also it has some fantastic features like the ease of building instrument and effect racks with massive chains and tweak-ability.  And Ableton's workflow is what every other DAW wishes it could do.  I think mixing would be fine in Ableton but given the state of the tracks after the composition stage, it could get really messy quickly so if I was going to mix in Ableton I'd probably freeze everything to audio first and start from a clean slate.  That's part of why I use Logic, to get a clean slate and fresh new workplace to mix from. 

Sort of a weird analogy but Ableton is like a sandbox freeroam kind of game, like GTA or something to me, and Logic is more rigid in what you can and can't do, more traditional, like a side scroller game or something where the levels have boundaries you can't cross.

I've never really used Reaper, I have a copy of it but I just never knew it well enough and I was already happy with other DAWs so I can't comment on the differences really.  For some reason I was under the impression Reaper was a bit watered down but honestly I have no clue.  In the end I think the DAW is really whatever sounds good to you and compliments your workflow so it's relevancy is highly personal in my opinion but if you haven't tried Ableton, I strongly recommend it.  It can be a game changer for sure.  Especially it's warping engine.  Nothing else compares to that right now, perhaps Bitwig will but for now it's pretty much in it's own league.

Bitwig is supposed to come out for beta this month or next I think and there's been a lot of talk of it being like an Ableton/Logic lovechild and if that's really the case I could see myself switching over at some point.  Some of the core Ableton guys left Ableton to start Bitwig because they felt Ableton wasn't giving as much attention to certain features as they should have, and I agree with some of their points.  For example, something that has been driving Ableton users nuts is the lack of automation curves.  To me, it's a very minor detail but some people have been asking for them since the beginning and we're on version 8 now and we still have to draw curves in by hand which kind of sucks and is a little stone-age-esque.  And of course the summing engine has been a source of intense debate as well.  Bitwig could be the new best thing ever, we'll have to wait and find out but it's looking promising.

Considering all things, I think a DAW that compliments your work and can handle the plug-ins that you like, is really the most ideal scenario.  Logic has probably the best stock plug-ins I have heard (nice soft synths and pretty excellent stock effects, especially Space Designer) but at this point I use mostly third party software anyway so it becomes a pretty moot point.  Ableton's stock stuff is hit or miss, some is great, some is awful.  Just gotta use your ears and pick what you like I guess but certainly there is enough there to make quality music right of out the box. 

I used to feel like switching over to a new DAW was a hefty process with a new learning curve that I just didn't have time for but lately I've been transitioning between them and it's been pretty straight forward and if that continues to be the case, sticking with one DAW may end up just limiting you.  Having the right tools at hand is necessary for any job and I really think every DAW offers something unique.  I still miss FL sometimes because of features that are unique to it. 

What are you looking for in a DAW?  What has got you sick of Reaper?  Maybe finding something that addresses those concerns is a good place to start.  I also have a personal interest in learning Cubase, it seems to be a really solid DAW as well, right up there with Logic in terms of professional quality, in fact, some consider Cubase and Nuendo to have the best sound of them all but again, I think that's highly personal. 

I'm curious to hear what you've been thinking and considering and what you end up deciding on.  If you've got any questions about Ableton or Logic feel free to ask away, I've been quite happy with both of them.

Quote (Makemetalmusic @ Jun 26 2012 10:24pm)

I'm downloading the trial of Ableton Suite right now, so I may have some noob questions for you in the coming days

What's irritated me with reaper? So many things! For one, it's unstable as shit with certain programs. Omnisphere and Reaper don't play nice together, it crashes Omnisphere at least a few times every time I use it. It's quite awful. I'll be in the middle of editing a patch, and Omnisphere will just completely crash and die. Also, it seems to have issues with my midi controller as well. It seemingly loses connection to my midi controller if I leave it on without playing it for a sum of time, so that I have to restart reaper to get it to recognize my controller again, as rebooting the midi controller doesn't seem to do it. Reaper also seems to just crash for no apparent reason sometimes as well. I have no idea why.

I've been reading about Ableton and I hear the workflow is really easy, which is what I'm looking for. I want something I can just get into right away without having to spend hours going over the manual to find out how to do this or that.

I hear great things about Cubase, it's all Infected Mushroom uses, so I don't doubt it's sound quality or versatility for that matter. Pretty much anything Infected uses is guaranteed top shelf, their production is easily the best I've heard from any electronic artist, (In my opinion).


Also, nice Ott track! I've never heard this one before, really enjoying it!