Ok, first of all, F2P is a term for newer gamers. See, us old gamers actually PAID to play a game per month, there was no F2P back then. But now you got all these little kids who have computers but no job and mommy and daddy dont make enough money. So what do game companies do? They create paid versions, and free versions. Mind you, these games have basically already failed and are basically in the "maintain enough income to keep our jobs" mode (ala AO LOTRO as examples). And now it seems even more games are coming out with item shops (aka give us money and will give you content).

Thank you for agreeing with me that most gamers cant understand basic concepts at all. Game design and games enigines? Please. You think the average blogger/writer @ videogames.com (aka "press") knows anything about a game engine other than maybe the name of the particular engine being used in a game? I highly doubt it. What kind of analysis could a console gamer give an mmorpg company on their "pvp" aspect of the game? Probably nothing. PvE? WHo cares, PvE is boring as hell and most people macro thru it anyways.

THe most concerning feed back i've read (atleast in terms of what im looking for in the game) is that battles tend to be favored by the larger numbered force. Now you might think well yeah the larger number force should win, they have more people. Well yes, this is true, but with more people generally comes more "bad players" and "afks", I could go on forever. So the larger force isnt technically always "Ready to fight" compared to say a smaller force whos using macros/voice chat to communicate. Now, in most pvp games, if the larger force is large enough it will just overwhelm the smaller force by sheer numbers alone, yet there has been many a times the smaller force could prevail because of superior play and synching of abilities and awful play by their enemies.

Unfortunately from what Ive read, Heals are very limited, CC is very limited, and damage abilities are commonplace. Many of the reviews I read contained such comments as "Basically whoever spams their dps abilities fastest in a Zerg vs Zerg fight is going to win", very disheartening since they are trying to mimic daoc with this "WvWvW" AKA REALM VS REALM.



Played DAOC till 1 year after ToA obliterated the game (It seems they've made good changes to make the gear grind tolerable, but since the game is down to a few thousand subs I'd say it was far too late). Although I am back to playing it now because below

PLayed Warhammer since release, was an internal tester for a year, I no longer play that either because Bioware is a joke of a company (Yes, look at how many millions of dollars theys tole from people who thought SWTOR was gonna be the shit and it was, a piece of shit).

2 more games that flopped in the western market.

Okay, lets start..

1. GW isnt f2p. GW2 isnt f2p. Its BUY to play. You know... like old gamers used to call games that didnt have a recurring monthly fee... maybe you're not old enough to remember... (Tried to be as condescending as yourself, not sure if i pulled it off)
2. Yes, plenty of reviewers dont know much. Guess what... you dont have to pay attention to them. There are plenty out there that do. Dont know why you bling up console gamers, probably to try and reinforce your moot point.
3. GW2's only structured pvp so far is 5v5... I dont know if you've ever played a game with WvW pvp, but its pretty obvious that a larger force will beat a smaller force. Yes there will obviously be more people not pulling their weight. Hence why WvW is 'casual' pvp and not tournament level pvp. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make other than pointing out the obvious point that WvW pvp has never really been very skill based. Its more numbers & tactically orientated (assuming you can even achieve that level of organisation through guilds/agencies/alliances etc. A smaller force can still prevail against a larger one, and gw2 asrguably adds plenty of 'new' ways to reinforce the skill differencial and be rewarding of it. So...

I dont think you understand what zerg vs zerg means. ZvZ implies that both sides are mindlessly spamming with no cohesion or skill. Under that pretense then OBVIOUSLY the side with more players/damage output will win. In the same way that a ZvZ with more healers in another game will win. HOWEVER, as i said before, this is under the pretense of zerg vs zerg. In a game like GW2 everyone have not only their own self heal, but countless utility skills and so on. In a sense, healers arent really gone, the role is just split between the players. So instead of having 500 units of healing done by 2 players outputting 250 each (dedi healers), you have 500 units of healing done by 20 players outputting 25 units each through their utility heals etc. Examples of this could be healing turrets, an elementalists water spec and so on. So in this fashion, it actually makes sense that skill is MORE rewarded since it will be a group effort to be fully effective, rather than 2 dedicated healers facerolling the heals while the dps...dps.

Saying that "CC" is very limited is just plain wrong. Not much to say about this. You clearly havent even looked at the various conditions and the skills classes have.

To be honest, you havent made a single point of note. You've made points which are generally flawed, or outright obvious. Such as classes having lots of damage abilities when there arent dedicated healers or tanks. Well no shit. IF everyone is a 'dps' class then obviously they will have high damage output.

BUT in gw2 using weapon systems you can differentiate the division of your class in a sense to a degree (overall classes will still retain plenty of defensive/healing etc abilities) but for example a greatsword guardian would be less support orientated than a scepter + focus guardian.

If you look at say an elementalist, you can see how different weapon sets influence the 4 different elements, which are already in and of themself somewhat distinguished. Fire is mainly dps/burning conditions etc, while frost offers the chill condition, and AoE heals/passive heals etc.

Other classes have abilities such as the guardian having a cone ability in front of him, which heals friendly targets / does some damage i believe it is to enemies. So despite there being no targeted heals, that doesnt mean there arent abilities which are more supportive which heal.

This post was edited by silentdeathz on Feb 28 2012 01:51pm

I wouldn't say they flopped that bad. Lineage 2 was still considered one of the best open world pvp MMOs, Aion I agree though was pretty sub-par (though it had potential). Tera is being very Westernized for the NA audience and they ARE listening and taking into account people's feedback from closed beta tests and doing things to improve from KTera. They even made leveling easier from KTera, there is no real grind until you get to luxing items (rolling items to get the secondary stats you want). NA Tera isn't going to be like a Korean MMO.



Actually, a lot of people like the loli characters and stuff. Tera is like the only game where you can get characters looking like the Elin, Baraka, and Popori right now. I don't think that's gonna cut out anybody. There's the typical human and elf races also.

This post was edited by missalaire on Feb 28 2012 02:49pm

flopped doesnt reflect peoples opinions on the game. its a measure for money/subs earned and kept compared to expectations of it. Lineage 2 had big dollar expectations and didnt come close to meeting them in the west.

your second sentence doesnt make much sense either, its not going to be a korean mmo but youll have to keep rerolling items to get the right second stat. Thats exactly a korean mmo.

This post was edited by Canoobian on Feb 28 2012 03:02pm

sure a lot of people do. They are likely the same ones who would play even without it. And even if they werent, they are definitely the minority compared to the ones who DONT want to play a game with loli and EXTREMELY easternised males.

Have you even looked at the elf/human males? its 100% eastern

This post was edited by silentdeathz on Feb 28 2012 03:07pm

Yeah, but I don't think the way they look is going to really deter that many people from playing if that's what you were trying to get at.



It will have some features of a "Korean MMO" but majority of it probably won't be like one. It also isn't 100% set in stone so they CAN make changes as they see fit for NA. I think Tera should do fairly well here in NA, Bluehole is willing to make changes for the better which is something that NCSoft didn't do much of with NA Aion.

This post was edited by missalaire on Feb 28 2012 03:14pm

I think you'd be surprised just how many people it would deter

All I know is. If instant cast abilities root you in place for a second, then PvP is never going to be competitive.

1. Buy to play? 99% of games are buy to play. How many times have you walked into walmart and walked out with the new game you wanted for free? Didn't think so. As for games without recurring monthly fees, I wouldn't know, I wasn't in playing my commodore 64 in my mothers basement in 1988 like you to have witnessed such things.
2. We are discussing pvp and I ding console gamers of course. What could they possibly know about PvP, game balance, class balance, etc compared to a person who plays pvp based mmorpgs for the same time duration of day as said Consoel Gamer plays his single player games? Absolutely nothing.
3. I clearly said where I played WvW pvp before, if you aren't familiar with those games you have no business even discussing pvp with me.

Ive read plenty about the CC. The durations are very short, the cool downs very long. From what I can tell atleast with the mesmer, the average DURA:CD is 1:3-7 (varies between type of CC). Some classes have more CC than others (for good reason) but some of those classes which lack CC also have more CC removing/reducing capabilities.