I personally never taken arpg market seriously, but recently while checking media space I realized a lot of games have made solid progress (and not d4 ofc).
So let's check out the list:

1. Surprisingly, Diablo Immortal.
Despite pay to win "gacha" style system, this game received way more content than d4 in approx. same amount of time!
It has - more classes (one was just added recently), more bosses (including prime evils and other famous characters from diablo lore,
different game modes, and looks like people actually do enjoy those if we compare to d4's garbage helltide/infernal hordes. It even has some kind of tower defence mode
and automatic pvp match making system. And the reason for all that is probably that it makes way more money for blizzard than d4.

2. Titan Quest 2.
Looks like this game is in some kind of early access mode now, but with way way lower budget it just looks good.
If you compare average fireball explosion or lightning effect/scene lightning in this game to d4, you will find out that d4 looks like 20 years old game.

3. Last Epoch. Clearly superior skill and crafting systems there, and this game was just sold to bigger company, that's clearly indicator of success.

4. POE2. As far as I know game is under fire from community now, but still it offers superior visuals, famous POE systems with less complexity and will most likely receive a lot of content in coming months.
Even in this unfinished state d4 looks like outsider here.

5. POE. The most complex arpg on the market and that keeps people's interest, obviously d4 will never offer that.

6. Project Diablo 2. Basically d2 with poe map system and other mechanics. It has regular updates, new seasons, community, etc. Compare that to d4's pit, lol.

7. D2R. The last but not the least, D2R graphics looks really good (100% better than d4). I'm not a fan of D2R visual style personally, but still it is amazing work by devs.
It even will be released in China soon, what clearly indicates the game is more than alive.

So the conclusion is - with highest budget, d4's progress is the worst. And I didn't even include smaller scale projects like Torchlite, Grim Dawn, etc.

This post was edited by Madmaxio on Aug 2 2025 06:49pm

tl;dr games shit

D4 just need a bit more build depth and some attention to end game.

Poe2 is just a mess. Lowered movement speed so it ferls less zoom zoom bug clears 2 screens with 1 button. What a ridiculous fails. Poe1 is less zoom zoom (almost)

I miss the old d3 sub days.
E
What happened to you man? You used to be beautiful

o....

It got reset

Tried all of the above, but I gave most of them up fairly easy.. I kept playing D4 in paralel and coming back to D4 season after season... gameplay + game feeling overall is just miles ahead vs anything in the market...

Last epoch is a second hard contender for me. So like 70% of time I play D4 and the rest it s LE in area of Arpgs.

Every time D4 haters want to talk they pick up some random fact, like PoE has more twitch viewers, and blow it out of proportions.

The problem with this approach is that twitch viewership does not generate money for companies, so no smart company will ever optimize game for that. And there is only extremely weak corelation between twitch views and game popularity. So for example one could look on twitch and judging on numbers conclude that PoE is much bigger than League of Legends or something.
Thats obviously not true, PoE even on Day 1 of the Season is still 30x smaller than ordinary day for LoL.
PoE is the kind of the game that generates more views on twitch than it has actual players, while most games only get 1 twitch views for 50-100 actual players.

But OFC for PoE simps picking twitch viewership like some relevant statistics serves them, even though in reality its completely irrelevant metric.

The reality is that none of the facts mentioned in OP are in any way relevant. And are also highly missleading.

All of this is just driven by selfishness of people demanding change that they prefer and are using other games as same "example of success". Somehow their way "is objectively right" and nobody else can get anything.

Like I genuinely dont understand how can someone be so clueless and tone deaf to think that D4 has something to learn from D2R or PD2.
How many player does PD2 have on Day 1 of new season? Maybe 3-5 thousands? (It used to be over 15k in S1 but thats long ago.) We dont have official numbers for D2R but I doubt its much bigger.

So what exactly can D4 learn from irrelevant games that nobody plays?
This whole thing is just a stupid joke.

This post was edited by DJVibrejtr on Aug 13 2025 04:25pm

Well don't know why you bring twitch numbers as an argument, anyway - d4 is the worst from that list, that's the point of this thread. And it is irrelevant who is hater and who is not.

What d4 can learn from D2R or PD2? Lol, replace garbage itemization with something better probably? This is for start.