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Dec 16 2024 11:00am
Quote (Snyft2 @ Dec 16 2024 10:07am)
okay so let me see if i got this right, blizz wants to implement smart loot but let people opt out of it if they want? hmmm in that case i got another analogy! then smart loot is like gay marriage :mellow:

i mean think about it, same arguments are used. "hugely beneficial for specific populations", "no one is forcing you to do it", "why do you even care" etc etc. and then 20 years after implementing it, the society inevitably collapses and everyone is like, wow no one expected this. while they should have expected this when they accepted an unnatural behavior that changes the fabric of society

or a less extreme example! if you want a party to fail, just let people change music at will. one hour later, everyone is bored and going home :mellow: they shouldnt because everyone can now pick his own music, but they will :wacko:


tldr: some things are just unnatural and it will turn people away from something. in this specific example (if the game had smart loot but i could opt out of using it), i wouldnt opt out, i wouldnt even play the game :unsure: imo some things should just stay impossible. you said it yourself, people have a strong opinion against it without giving you reasons. thats called an instinctive response. and since instincts evolved under generations of evolutionary pressure, there is usually a good reason behind them. i guess the basic reason is, people dont want to trade freedom for convenience :cry:


So gay marriage is going to collapse society relatively soon or did it already ?
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Dec 16 2024 11:22am
Quote (Snyft2 @ 16 Dec 2024 17:07)
okay so let me see if i got this right, blizz wants to implement smart loot but let people opt out of it if they want? hmmm in that case i got another analogy! then smart loot is like gay marriage :mellow:

i mean think about it, same arguments are used. "hugely beneficial for specific populations", "no one is forcing you to do it", "why do you even care" etc etc. and then 20 years after implementing it, the society inevitably collapses and everyone is like, wow no one expected this. while they should have expected this when they accepted an unnatural behavior that changes the fabric of society

or a less extreme example! if you want a party to fail, just let people change music at will. one hour later, everyone is bored and going home :mellow: they shouldnt because everyone can now pick his own music, but they will :wacko:


tldr: some things are just unnatural and it will turn people away from something. in this specific example (if the game had smart loot but i could opt out of using it), i wouldnt opt out, i wouldnt even play the game :unsure: imo some things should just stay impossible. you said it yourself, people have a strong opinion against it without giving you reasons. thats called an instinctive response. and since instincts evolved under generations of evolutionary pressure, there is usually a good reason behind them. i guess the basic reason is, people dont want to trade freedom for convenience :cry:


Ok I will make last and short response here bcs its not obvious to me that you are serious and I dont want to waste time arguing with who might just be a troll.

1) Your entire argument is based on idea that there is freedom VS (what you call) convinience trade off, but as I repeatedly asked you never explained why is there loss of freedom? You are just imagining it. If you play sorc, and you dont get barbarian items, you dont lose freedom you can still play barbarian.
My analogy: Thats like saying that somehow person who works for 1 company and can choose to work for any other company at any point depending on what they want and how is less free than person who is randomly being sent to work for multiple different companies, and has no control over where he will work, is less free? Why? And if someone is arguing that you should be able to choose where you work and what you do, and its not decided for you randomly, then that person is arguing for convinience, but not freedom?? How is ability to make choices for yourself convinience, but not freedom?? And again, smart loot gives you freedom to decide what you want to play/what items you get and in what ratio, where without smart loot you dont get freedom you get randomness.

2) You are implying (and even suggesting that I said so myself) that there are somehow many players against smart loot... Thats not true and I never said that, I was just wondering why some players seem to be so obcessed with smart loot. But its just a tiny minority. Most players are not against smart loot and when given option wont turn it off, makes no sense.
So to continue your evolution & instinct talk, fear of smart loot is like fear of water - aquaphobia - that in extreme cases can result in life threatening situations of people have fear of drinking water. You are right that instincs sometimes (perhaps most often) tell as deep and profound truths about the world that cant be easily rationalized, but sometimes (especially when you see only small minority with these instincts) its just something maladaptative and misaligned thats just not good for you.

It almost sounds like you are implying some grand conspiracy from Blizzard, that despite the fact that they have data about it, and that allegedly players want it, Blizzard knows it but somehow wants players to not be free or what exactly?
There is much easier explanation, no conspiracy is needed: Smart loot is simply popular and most players want it.

OFC this is broader problem in ARPG scene esp bcs PoE has such loud and toxic and fanatical community, that makes it look like PoE players somehow represent what ARPG players want. But PoE1 was small game, while D4 sold 12M copies in first couple of weeks before even going to steam. Difference in market share between D4 and PoE1 is bigger than Google and Bing. And so far underperformance of PoE2 doesnt suggest thats going to change much. Just because PoE has such loud and toxic community doesnt mean thats what players want.
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Dec 16 2024 04:43pm
Quote (DJVibrejtr @ Dec 16 2024 06:22pm)
Ok I will make last and short response here bcs its not obvious to me that you are serious and I dont want to waste time arguing with who might just be a troll.

1) Your entire argument is based on idea that there is freedom VS (what you call) convinience trade off, but as I repeatedly asked you never explained why is there loss of freedom? You are just imagining it. If you play sorc, and you dont get barbarian items, you dont lose freedom you can still play barbarian.
My analogy: Thats like saying that somehow person who works for 1 company and can choose to work for any other company at any point depending on what they want and how is less free than person who is randomly being sent to work for multiple different companies, and has no control over where he will work, is less free? Why? And if someone is arguing that you should be able to choose where you work and what you do, and its not decided for you randomly, then that person is arguing for convinience, but not freedom?? How is ability to make choices for yourself convinience, but not freedom?? And again, smart loot gives you freedom to decide what you want to play/what items you get and in what ratio, where without smart loot you dont get freedom you get randomness.

2) You are implying (and even suggesting that I said so myself) that there are somehow many players against smart loot... Thats not true and I never said that, I was just wondering why some players seem to be so obcessed with smart loot. But its just a tiny minority. Most players are not against smart loot and when given option wont turn it off, makes no sense.
So to continue your evolution & instinct talk, fear of smart loot is like fear of water - aquaphobia - that in extreme cases can result in life threatening situations of people have fear of drinking water. You are right that instincs sometimes (perhaps most often) tell as deep and profound truths about the world that cant be easily rationalized, but sometimes (especially when you see only small minority with these instincts) its just something maladaptative and misaligned thats just not good for you.

It almost sounds like you are implying some grand conspiracy from Blizzard, that despite the fact that they have data about it, and that allegedly players want it, Blizzard knows it but somehow wants players to not be free or what exactly?
There is much easier explanation, no conspiracy is needed: Smart loot is simply popular and most players want it.

OFC this is broader problem in ARPG scene esp bcs PoE has such loud and toxic and fanatical community, that makes it look like PoE players somehow represent what ARPG players want. But PoE1 was small game, while D4 sold 12M copies in first couple of weeks before even going to steam. Difference in market share between D4 and PoE1 is bigger than Google and Bing. And so far underperformance of PoE2 doesnt suggest thats going to change much. Just because PoE has such loud and toxic community doesnt mean thats what players want.


hey im not a troll <_< i mean okay i am a troll but im not trolling now :cry:

i like your analogy, except you kinda skipped the bad parts, so i will do it! so you arent just "working for a company", you are working for a very specific company! lets say quantum computing! very new, very specific. you gain experience very fast, BUT your experience is completely worthless for any other area of...well, anything. the time you spend in that company is worth more than in a normal company, BUT ONLY for that specific niche and if you choose to work in a different area, you will basically start from zero. not to mention that you wont even see anyone from other areas because no one visits your company because fuck quantum computing. so yeah, i wouldnt wanna work there! would honestly prefer random work!

and as for 2) i never commented on the number of people against smart loot, i said "people have a strong opinion against it" which to me seems same as what you said :unsure: probably just a misunderstanding but oh well :cry:

also i dont think blizzard cares about what people think, they (and every other dev) probably just cares about time spent in game, which is why a smart dev shouldnt want smart loot as it shortens that time. you want trade and no smart loot for playermaxxing :drool:
Quote (Bigworm @ Dec 16 2024 06:00pm)
So gay marriage is going to collapse society relatively soon or did it already ?


it all started when women got voting rights brother <_<
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Dec 16 2024 07:12pm
Poe 2 and it's not even remotely closeeeee
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Dec 17 2024 07:02pm
Quote (Snyft2 @ Dec 16 2024 04:43pm)
hey im not a troll <_< i mean okay i am a troll but im not trolling now :cry:

i like your analogy, except you kinda skipped the bad parts, so i will do it! so you arent just "working for a company", you are working for a very specific company! lets say quantum computing! very new, very specific. you gain experience very fast, BUT your experience is completely worthless for any other area of...well, anything. the time you spend in that company is worth more than in a normal company, BUT ONLY for that specific niche and if you choose to work in a different area, you will basically start from zero. not to mention that you wont even see anyone from other areas because no one visits your company because fuck quantum computing. so yeah, i wouldnt wanna work there! would honestly prefer random work!

and as for 2) i never commented on the number of people against smart loot, i said "people have a strong opinion against it" which to me seems same as what you said :unsure: probably just a misunderstanding but oh well :cry:

also i dont think blizzard cares about what people think, they (and every other dev) probably just cares about time spent in game, which is why a smart dev shouldnt want smart loot as it shortens that time. you want trade and no smart loot for playermaxxing :drool:


it all started when women got voting rights brother <_<


Yea trooth, what you doing tomorrow
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Dec 23 2024 09:26am
Honestly both games have their merits. If you're a diehard arpg fan you'll most likely play PoE2. If you're still being breastfed you'll probably play diablo 4
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Jan 16 2025 02:32am
So it is time for round 2, friends!

PoE2 clearly won round 1, even though it was just early access. Now it is time to see what d4 and Rod "diablolike" Fergusson is capable of, and let the battle begin!

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Jan 21 2025 03:41pm
D2R > PoE > D4 just by looking at recent active users at jsp. Seems like people are not hyped about S7 as it was with VoH.
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Jan 21 2025 04:50pm
So it is time for round 2, friends!

PoE2 clearly won round 1, even though it was just early access. Now it is time to see what d4 and Rod "diablolike" Fergusson is capable of, and let the battle begin!

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/challenger-mike-tyson-looks-down-at-his-opponent-champion-news-photo-1716482847.jpg


I played PoE2 EA a bit until I got bored.

I’ll play d4 season 7 for a bit until I get bored.

So I guess both or neither.

Edit: actually fuck it, it’s d4 baby :P

This post was edited by TeenyUncle8 on Jan 21 2025 04:51pm
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Jan 22 2025 03:20am
D2R > PoE > D4 just by looking at recent active users at jsp. Seems like people are not hyped about S7 as it was with VoH.


Surprisingly yes, I noticed that too. I checked media recently, and looks like s7 hype is close to zero, even Rob looked not that happy.
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