Quote (Snyft2 @ Oct 30 2023 07:38pm)

- no soul, no innovation, nothing really stands out; game offers nothing new, its like coming to a new restaurant and ordering pasta or fries. no one does that. you order the specialty, you want to see whats different about the place :cry:
- no endgame; pvp is the only true endgame, pseudoendgames like pvm for the sake of pvm (what poe does) will never fulfill you because we need interaction, we need someone to work with or compete against, and no amount of astroturfed "achievements" is gonna change that and people will just get burned out no matter the amount of content
- no content even of pvm kind; poe is shallow but at least has a lot of stuff to do
- limited trading, again due to heavily limiting player interaction
- limited pvp, same reason; and even when you do manage to pvp the "allowed" way, it still sucks because of the fucking cooldowns that everyone hates. people just dont work that way, literally the more cooldown skills you have, the less enjoyable the pvp
- scammy business model
- itemization is retarded, they wanted to copy grim dawn but ended up with d3 :mellow:


??
probably more but im bored to even think about d4

Quote (mabp @ Oct 30 2023 06:24pm)

Just wanna ask about pvp. Why people want good pvp in grinding game when they have a lot of good titles to play pvp? With good netcode, ping, balance, etc.
Pvp in all diablo games is very bad and limited. Why should Blizzard should even thought about dead mode with 10k active players?

Quote (Snyft2 @ Oct 30 2023 08:44pm)

well theres really not too many rpgs with good pvp i think :unsure: and rpg lovers are humans after all, we like competition too :blush: ! pvp never really gets old and the more complexity a game has, the worse it will be. pvp actually needs to be simple and easy to access, and any kind of complexity kills it :blush: when i was a kid, all we needed was a basketball and we had all the fun we wanted :drool:

so people want good pvp everywhere, and even making something primarily a grinding game is a bad choice right from the start. and if you have good pvp, even with 10k active players, those players are there all the time and make a very solid foundation for the games stability ^_^ and there is really only 2 ways to build a stable arpg foundation, either make good cooperative, or a good competitive aspect. if you have neither, your game will fail 100% of the time

for example d2 has perfect pvp, simple, balanced, not much prep required. if you want, you just exit the town and host someone :blush: i remember when neverwinter nights came out, and this is what happens when you add even a bit too much complexity, you lose balance and get a rock/paper/scissors type of a situation where every build has some direct counter, so pvp community wasnt big enough to carry the game even though it was good. poe is too much complexity and it was obvious right from the start that not only does pvp suck, it will ALWAYS suck and there is no way to fix that. d4 is somehow both simple and has shit pvp. mechanically i blame cooldowns but that games shit even without that so idk :wacko:

Quote (jackherer @ 30 Oct 2023 14:12)

its hilarious that you are over 30 and still think like a spoilt teenager

all the best big man

Quote (mabp @ Oct 30 2023 06:55pm)

ty for for detailed answer
So it's kind of nostalgia plus each game has own fans

Disagree about d2, bcs dueling with another pvp players requires a lot of preparations and as a pvp game it is really bad implemented and balances. With all this caps to resistances, poison bans, etc, etc. But I don't want to discuss it bcs noone change his opinion

Also, wanna ask - did you try to play similar games? There was some warlocks arena like 5 years ago.
Dota/Lol have similar mechanics.You control you char, making micro and macro decisions, using artifacts. Even random artifacts were added some time ago.
And you can always play 1v1 there if you want

Quote (Madmaxio @ Oct 30 2023 08:16pm)

From previous threads, most obvious points:

1. Horrible itemization, in almost every aspect.
2. Spender/generator system - you are basically forced to use weak skills before you can use main attack.
3. Overall bad skill system - not that much skills to use, poor skill customization, even D3 (lol!) had better skill customization and skill design.
4. Strange affixes every where, on skills, on items, paragon etc - if this, then that, only if this. Check excelent carbot video about Diablo 4 itemization.
5. Bad visual design - it is hard to see your character, it is hard to see monsters, screen explode constantly, camera is too close and you can't zoom out (due to performance reasons, lol, that's the quote from the devs).
6. I personally don't like visual style - IMHO it is still diablo 3 style, and probably for diablo 3 it was just better (clown fest every where). Here they picked more darker variant, which looks, well, ugly (compared to diablo 3).
7. Ugly chraracters with ugly animations. They probably can look good only when wearing super heavy armor.
8. Limited trading.
9. Social aspect is missing, basically.

Quote (Snyft2 @ Oct 30 2023 03:25pm)

true ^_^

and well, i did try similar games (nwn, grim dawn, poe), but none have the same pvp :( and as for dota and lol, i really dislike any game that has anything subscription based, so im not gonna bother with those :wacko:



ah yee, i forgot to mention some of those in my post...but yeah :wacko: d4 is literal shit tbh