I mean d4 can’t be that arrogant to claim they’ve got nothing to learn from pd2 or d2r. They’re both great games with lots of die hard fans. Whether you like it or not, d4 still has a lot to learn and improve.
Op’s right on point about massive budget that was spent on d4. Released an unfinished game s0-s3 then proceed to completely change the game s4 loot reborn. If they got it right, they wouldn’t have haters.
D4 just had an event reward cosmetics for just watching d4 streamers so they do give a shit about their viewcount, not as desperate but they do.

Well I didnt say they dont care about twitch views, its just its not nr.1 factor for optimization.

Rework in S4 and all the haters is also probelematic point, because you look at it from completely wrong perspective. You think that the more hate game gets, the worse it must be, but the correct way of looking at things is the more players game has the better it is. PoE has extremely toxic cummunity and peope there spend more time attacking other games than actually playing theirs.
But "hate" is not relevant factor. Every smart company when given choice between selling 5 million copies and having 100k people hate commenting it, or selling 500k copies with no hate... Every smart company will choose 5 million copies and hate.
And BTW, when I say hate is not relevant - just like with twitch views - Im not acutally saying that they dont care at all, again, just that its not highest priority. Reducing amout of hate is simply not smart strategy.

Sure, if there was another big ARPG you might have point, but there isnt. D4 is bigger than all the games on the list combined. Blizzard with D4 is aiming at 10-20 million copies sold with every expansion (Blizzard info was that D4 sold 666 mil. USD in 5 days, doubled player base in 2 months and reached 12 mil. player in august 2023, since then went on steam and had 1 expansion etc.), whereas second biggest game on the list PoE2 considered it major milestone to reach 1 million players. If D4 had sold only million copies it would not even pay for CGI cinematics.
(And BTW since that 1m milestone in PoE2 entire franchise collapsed and now PoE 1 and 2 combined are smaller than PoE 1 was before release of PoE 2. PoE 2 was actual disaster. They dont get the hate D4 was getting, but thats bcs PoE has extremely toxic community prepared to endlessly attack D4, but there isnt anyone willing to invest as much into criticizing PoE2... They say that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference, and again, you just look at it wrong if you really think that amount of hate is good metric for for failure or relevant factor at all.)

And the last point that D4 has something to learn from D2 or PD2... Thats not true but also its complicated. It certainly is not as simple as you can simply take something good from other games and add it to D4.
For example recently I started for the first time playing Last Epoch and planning on blasting Season 3 next week. However what I noticed is that none of my D4 friends who cant speak english can actually play LE. The game is too complex, crafting too important right away, and if you cant read what glyphs do, what runes do, and everything, then you simply cant play.
So people who pretend that adding complexity to the game simply improves the game for people who want more depth are either clueless or lying. Adding complexity to the game changes it in such a way that makes the game unavailable for many. Not just non-english speaking people, but casuals any more.

So Blizzard could add more complexity depth and end game to the game, but doing so would alienate a lot of people. Since market is filled with small complex games like PoE that get hundreds of thousands players, and Blizzard is aiming at tens on millions, they are making the right choice to make game more friendly and available.

Since I myself play a lot, played PoE1 and 2, LE, D2,3,4 and more, I would consider myself someone who would benefit from more depth and complexity in D4.
I am just not as selfish and narcisistic as all the people here to scream that Im the fucking centre of the universe and Blizzard owes it to me to make the game exactly for me and with everything I prefer, and disregard millions of other players.

This post was edited by DJVibrejtr on Aug 14 2025 07:02am

By your logic, those millions of players are happy with d4 right now, heh.

And indeed they are... there s thousands of player at every hour of the day playing any activity in the game.. and genuinely having a blast. I meet random players every day via the group finder and we just have fun... nobody complains about the game.. we just play and enjoy the game.

When i said haters, i didn’t mean actual haters that was born to hate d4 for meme. I do play d4, considered myself as a d4 player. There are some parts that i like about the game and i think they did right but there are some that i just hate. English isn’t my first language so maybe you got the wrong idea when i mentioned ‘haters’. Sure they did sell millions of copy, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the game was great hence why millions bought into it. Nah, the way i’m seeing it, d4 decided to take on the casuals community and now stuck in between the blasters/hardcore gamers and the casuals. The blasters/hardcore of course will complain about how easy the game has become where the casuals will brace d4 as the new best arpg ever. They need to find a balance between both groups if they wanna keep succeeding.
By learning, i did not mean taking game mechanics, graphics, etc… from them other games and implant them into d4. I was leaning towards the attitudes from the dev, consider d4 chief Rod just left them. I don’t see any of the d4 dev team actually play their game. That’s a huge red flag for me. Even on the occasional d4 stream from dev, it confirms that they don’t actively play their game. Problems/issues that appeared in d4 4-5 seasons ago and still manage to exist now. Take ring of melden for example, how long did that thing stay ‘unfunctional’ for, noone could play summoner build until they fixed it recently. And don’t let me go on further into duping lol.

1. I'm glad you agree that order of magnitude here is "thousands".
2. And even those people can name you few improvements for the game if you will ask them.

This post was edited by Madmaxio on Aug 15 2025 06:39am

I myself would criticize game a lot as well. I have been rather dissatisfied with the game lately and really only enjoyed current season for 2 weeks at most.

But if you are trying to imply that what you are doing can be categorized as criticism, then thats ridiculous.
You are just throwing temper tantrums claiming that all the other games are better and that d4 has worst progress and what not...
(Thats especially ironic since from your description of games on your list it seems to me that you havent actually played many of those. You just keep saying "seem" "look" and other words indicating having no personal connection there, so its all just hearsay about how everything is better than D4.)

Which makes no sense bcs d4 is by far the most sucessfull and bigger than all the games on your list combined. So you are either ignoring or distorting reality, and choosing irelevant metrics to unfairly attack D4.
So none of that can be described as criticism, let alone fair even from subjective perspective.

BTW just to be clear: You have every right to dislike the game and every right to consider all of the games on the list better than D4.
Not taking that away from you.

But have some dignity and acknowledge that throwing temper tantrums about how D4 is objective failure, worst game in everything and in history and what not... Thats not the same thing as "criticism". Criticism looks differently.

I think you are right about emotional part of my position for d4, but I strongly believe that d4 quality is way way lower than any of those games.

Grinding Gear Games had to chew way more criticism recently on both og Path of Exile and the secondary project, og critique due to almost one year of no new league and secondary project critique due to pushing ruthless-like mode as default down the players throat. They adressed most and applied many QoL changes to both, in some cases rethinking their own approach to players feedback. Comparing to that, Blizzards campfire damage control sittings been just joke, game didnt made any real progress, its same semi-cooked failed pie, when you taste it. D4 with same gamebreaking bugs which werent resolved by their devs to this day, its been a while from when ive released myself from this chore of a game.

Comparing Project Diablo 2 to D4 is pointless only because theres more sense in aiming criticism straight at Blizzard, where with D2R they still didnt figured how code more stashes without fking their netcode. Project Diablo 2 got now 1 personal stash tab + 9 shared stash tabs + on top of that they added shared CURRENCY TAB in recent season 11.

D4b4D stands firm still and bold as its always been.