Quote (TeenyUncle8 @ 4 Dec 2024 18:56)

Thats purely subjective. I play way more D2r now that I’m offline than I ever did when I traded. If your motivation for playing arpg’s is to farm stuff for the purpose of trading, that’s fine. Maybe many agree. But that’s 100% based on the user and not the only way an aRPG can have replay value.

Quote (CMBurns @ Dec 4 2024 06:27pm)

It's not subjective. I've been a producer in the gaming industry for 14 years. I've seen the KPIs.

Quote (TeenyUncle8 @ Dec 5 2024 12:56am)

Thats purely subjective. I play way more D2r now that I’m offline than I ever did when I traded. If your motivation for playing arpg’s is to farm stuff for the purpose of trading, that’s fine. Maybe many agree. But that’s 100% based on the user and not the only way an aRPG can have replay value.

Quote (Snyft2 @ 4 Dec 2024 20:59)

imo its mainly pvp that gives replayability, but i guess it depends on the person and the game. personally, i absolutely need trading, not only because it gives me incentive to farm, but also because i value freedom a lot, and if i cant give an item to someone, it feels...wrong :wacko: also im not 15 anymore, if theres no economy, it devalues my time and fuck that :mellow:

and i understand that there will always be people that dont care about economy (hence the ssf league in poe for those). so you definitely arent alone, i personally didnt give a shit about economy in poe either because i didnt enjoy the game much and was just creating hideouts :blush: but we will always be a minority and burns is very likely right because i cant name a single successful arpg that purposefully cut off free trade :unsure:

also another problem is that the reasons some devs dont add trading are straight up lies :ph34r: for example in d4 its to "combat bots and duping". firstly i dont even see the problem in using those, duping attracts casuals because it lowers item price and i can bot even without economy, if anything, im MORE likely to bot because i feel my time is devalued. although to be fair, i do bot everything i can so maybe im biased. i would probably bot jsp as well if we got forum gold for each post <_< anyway! blizz doesnt give a shit about the players nor the bots, he real reason they cut the trading is because they want you to spend more time ingame. and everyone does that, poe does this as well except they didnt cut the economy. they instead make good items very hard to get, forcing people to waste time. gaming industry is rotten to the core brother :cry:

Quote (CMBurns @ Dec 4 2024 07:12pm)

Stats indicate PvP doesn't have much of an impact on ARPG retention.

Trading however is night & day difference.

I'm a huge fan of PvP too, but it's just not as popular as we wish it really was in ARPG players.

Quote (CMBurns @ Dec 5 2024 03:12am)

Stats indicate PvP doesn't have much of an impact on ARPG retention.

Trading however is night & day difference.

I'm a huge fan of PvP too, but it's just not as popular as we wish it really was in ARPG players.

Quote (Snyft2 @ 4 Dec 2024 21:19)

wait really :cry: ?..

i remember when ggg added leo and the whole pvp thing, that was a really good period.. i mean in a game as complex as poe pvp can never work, but back then when it was relatively simple, pvp was kinda fun :blush:

Quote (TeenyUncle8 @ 4 Dec 2024 21:17)

I have no doubt trading is popular. But you’re arguing that an aRPG literally cannot have retention or replayability without trading. Which is just silly.

There is a wide rift between looking at trends and seeking to nudge a needle one way or another and assuming a player base is monolithic and absolute.

Quote (fehk @ Dec 4 2024 08:39pm)

hes right. there will be a huge influx of players when the game launches, but a player driven economy is what keeps people logging in. this isnt 2002. we are all adults and our time has a monetary value now. if i find something mega rare and its going to sit in the stash because its account bound, why should i keep farming.

theres a reason why POE1 is still relevant: GGG knows how to keep players logging in. if it was because of pvp you wouldnt have so many pve based seasons

Quote (CMBurns @ Dec 4 2024 06:30pm)

You misunderstand. Any ARPG can be enjoyed for a few runs without trade, depending on the quality of their content.

But NO arpg has long term replayability and retention without trade. An economy drives people to farm. Open trade means anything you find but can't use has intrinsic worth to your build because you can sell it for something you need. When an economy dies out (or doesn't exist), the motivation to farm becomes much smaller because suddenly most of what you find has no value.






Yes you can use JSP, just don't mention it in game and don't make it obvious. People in PoE1 have been trading on JSP without issue.