Quote (Modulok2405 @ 12 Sep 2024 08:42)

I cant deny D4 is a fun game, cause it is.

I also cant deny that it is less fun then I hoped it would be and that D2 has still so many departments D4 should learn from. I feel like not only Diablo, but the whole genre devolved since D3 came along and gave devs a few crazy ideas like the following few examples:


- The whole Loot Situation. Items as a whole, rarities, Smart Loot, Mythical Farming, Target Farming in the form of Uber Bosses, Affix variety, Aspects, you name it. Its just bad. While it isnt the exact same, it absolutely feels like the D3 Loot situation in a way.
We will definitely find everything in every season. Multiple times. We just hope to find everything with great rolls, isnt that exciting?

- Combat depth. No one cares about specific elemental damage types or so, there is no depth in this. No one cares about the used weapon type apart from the implicit. No weapon ranges, no significant fast or slow wielding differences, nothing.
Its mostly cool down controlled all button mashing, probably holding back the unstoppable skill to use it when needed.

Also Multipliers totally destroy any hopes of linear progression. Builds go from unplayable to overpowered with single items or one unlocked multiplier of another source sometimes.
If you dont follow build guides and dont have the time and experience to build your own working build, which most wont be able to do, you might not be 50% slower than others, but 5000% slower. You might be stuck at T2 or T3 while a few changes here and there might make you blast through T8 like nothing.

I could go on, but the bottom line is: All of this was better solved 25 years ago and its right in front of their eyes. Whats going on?

I am a Diablo guy since 1996 and always root for Diablo to be good, but its only going downhill with this franchise. Goin downhill for 2 decades now...and they earned more than a billion with D4..so they are right and I am wrong it seems.

Maybe a newer generation of players cant see what they miss? Could it be that D3 made people change their standards and this is the new best way to do it? But then again, doesnt PoE show us that this isnt the case?

Quote (Madmaxio @ Sep 12 2024 03:50pm)

Good that you bring up smart loot issue (again), it is really strange people usually don't mention it when talking about d4, especially streamers. I would add "runewords" to the list.

Combat is horrible dumbest click fest I have ever saw and multipliers are also horrible ofcourse. Overall it is amazing how they combined all this garbage in single game.

Quote (junkie1991 @ Sep 12 2024 03:42pm)

I have 0 interest in trying ptr as i think it’s a waste of time. But i think it was either mentioned in patch notes or something, pretty sure of it. Maybe it’s a bit much but i hope rune drop rate will be low, i don’t want to have 20 sparks after 1-2 weeks playing.

D4 or diablo genre doesn’t need an end game or even a hard boss for a challenge to be honest. I don’t know how you look at diablo since you started so long ago. But for me personal, it’s a looting game, the fun is in the looting system, the droprate is the challenge for me, not a massive unkillable demon. D2 feels exactly like a pokie machine for me, sometimes when it comes into dry runs, it sure does feel sleepy and hard to enjoy but man, once you got that shako from mephisto with the drop rate of ~1:800, feels amazing.

I would love it if d4 could hit me up with feelings like this instead of shoving me a handful of sparks.

Quote (Modulok2405 @ 12 Sep 2024 08:50)

More endgame? No no no, more endgame activities is not what the game needs, thats already more than enough.

What the game needs is more ENJOYABLE endgame. What you do must matter more and has to be more engaging.

Do you know why D2 has still more enjoyable endgame than D4 for a lot of people despite even having any endgame activities you could argue?

Its because what you do is fun and what you get as reward is fun to go through.
You dont have to mash six buttons all the time as soon as the Cool Downs go down and you dont have to collect all the golden stuff while trying to avoid the rest.

In D2 you collect the white stuff, the grey stuff, the blue stuff, the green stuff, the yellow stuff and the golden stuff. Not every piece, but specific pieces and you know exactly which pieces those are.
Although you potentially look at all colors you still never feel like you need a loot filter cause its so great to cherrypick what you want without the game ever being confusing.
Then you look at those few items you picked up and thx to the games itemization, you dont even need to compare anything cause all is obvious.
Your loot isnt guided by smartloot or other shit its just random drops. Maybe for you, maybe for another class.
You use your favorite character and specialize that character to find some loot. Loot for your other characters and loot to sell to other people. You can sell it all and you can farm all day long without needing to find materials to continue to farm.

Its a game you feel free in and its an exciting endgame without any activities besides just farming the same dudes over and over again. And it works because what you do is engaging and what you find actually matters. You know your loot in D2 good enough to see what you want to pick up.

Its just another quality of farming, you know?

Quote (Bartus @ Sep 12 2024 04:47pm)

As a d2 player for many years i think you are romancing the game at this point. (not talking about pvp).

Basicly all end game chars could/can do all bosses, and almost all chars wearing hoto eni ?? You can choose but even there are most of the builds just the same. New ladder blizz sorc and later on hammer, wind druid and now with d2r everyone used mosaic and nova sorc? Sorry havent played for a while so this might have changed.
But even back in the day it all became boring doing like 19 diaruns before rd. So basicly d4 is like the same as all. Especially with sites like these where u can buy everything with money. I think not many people around jsp have experienced the time that runes where the currency..... and there where no loot helpers if you know what i mean.... (or at least not so many.

I like d4 but when u have an endgame build its done, no fun in lvling (not needed) and i can do all the bosses so why should i get an even better item? Ok sometimes i like to try a new build (first druid this season its kinda fun)

Lol I even play d3 now and then....

Quote (Modulok2405 @ 12 Sep 2024 17:32)

Sure, what you say is all true, but was absolutely not what the post you quoted was about.
Build variance in D2 is kinda low and almost all casters use Hoto and almost all characters wear Enigma. But that is just more an issue of the age of the game and not what I talked about here.

I never said I want D4 to be D2, I said that the basic itemization and the gameplay loop in D2 are genius. Which they are.

Quote (Modulok2405 @ Sep 13 2024 12:29am)

Not a chance mate. You cant get that feeling out of D4 I think.

Quote (Modulok2405 @ Sep 12 2024 01:42am)

I cant deny D4 is a fun game, cause it is.

I also cant deny that it is less fun then I hoped it would be and that D2 has still so many departments D4 should learn from. I feel like not only Diablo, but the whole genre devolved since D3 came along and gave devs a few crazy ideas like the following few examples:


- The whole Loot Situation. Items as a whole, rarities, Smart Loot, Mythical Farming, Target Farming in the form of Uber Bosses, Affix variety, Aspects, you name it. Its just bad. While it isnt the exact same, it absolutely feels like the D3 Loot situation in a way.
We will definitely find everything in every season. Multiple times. We just hope to find everything with great rolls, isnt that exciting?

- Combat depth. No one cares about specific elemental damage types or so, there is no depth in this. No one cares about the used weapon type apart from the implicit. No weapon ranges, no significant fast or slow wielding differences, nothing.
Its mostly cool down controlled all button mashing, probably holding back the unstoppable skill to use it when needed.

Also Multipliers totally destroy any hopes of linear progression. Builds go from unplayable to overpowered with single items or one unlocked multiplier of another source sometimes.
If you dont follow build guides and dont have the time and experience to build your own working build, which most wont be able to do, you might not be 50% slower than others, but 5000% slower. You might be stuck at T2 or T3 while a few changes here and there might make you blast through T8 like nothing.

I could go on, but the bottom line is: All of this was better solved 25 years ago and its right in front of their eyes. Whats going on?

I am a Diablo guy since 1996 and always root for Diablo to be good, but its only going downhill with this franchise. Goin downhill for 2 decades now...and they earned more than a billion with D4..so they are right and I am wrong it seems.

Maybe a newer generation of players cant see what they miss? Could it be that D3 made people change their standards and this is the new best way to do it? But then again, doesnt PoE show us that this isnt the case?

Quote (JayBomber @ 17 Sep 2024 11:08)

Didn’t read tired, but Agree!!!

Will read later after Good Sleep :D

Ok after reading n already knew this a year ago n bad D3 experience from the past.

D2R is like a Nice big Cake to enjoy eating it one slice at a time, D4 is like a big Bag of Candies, everything is there I’ll eat couple candies and throw it away to the side all taste the same n boring b)