I've never thought about this before, just came across this while looking over elite crossbows.

Grand Matron Bow
Dmg 14-72 (43 average)
Str Required: 108
Dex Required: 152
Item Level: 72
Clvl Req: 64
Max Sockets: 5
Dmg Bonus: 100 Dex
Weapon Speed: 10

Colossus Crossbow
32-91 Dmg (61.5 average!!)
Str Req: 163
Dex Req: 77
Item Level: 70
Clvl Req: 62
Sockets: 1-6
Dmg Bonus: 100 Dex
Weapon Speed: 10

Colossos Crossbow has 43% higher base damage than GMB. Same weapon speed (10).
Why is Faith GMB the meta? Those +skills don't really matter for a physical bowazon. The only downside I see to the Xbow is the huge STR req, but that seems a decent tradeoff for such an increase in base damage? Faith GBM has 184.9 average damage, Faith Colossus Xbow 264.45.

Did you check any IAS calculator by any chance?

0 IAS grand matron bow with lvl15 fana shoots at 11fpa, can be lower up to 7fpa with 92IAS
0 IAS colossus crossbow with lvl15 fana shoots at 16fpa, can be lower up to 11fpa with 70IAS

Same weapon speed is not important when they are different type of weapon (crossbows vs bows)

This post was edited by Titus1986 on Nov 6 2021 03:51pm

Welp, there goes my idea. Assumed that bows and crossbows use the same inherent weapon type just like for example 1h axes, swords and maces use the same inherent weapon type for calculating IAS.

You know, that's interesting. I think it was last ladder season i made a harmony ballista which randomly dropped through nightmare with my bowa. Hardcore.

I use strafe instead of multishot, and i used ~15 skill point guided arrow as main attack for quite a while.

I also bought a ceremonial bow that i made harmony in, and i used the two extensively to find out the difference, in nightmare quest bugged diablo runs.


Strafe with ceremonial bow, which has the same standard attack speed as grand matron bow:

0 7/4/4/4/12 4.9
3 7/4/4/4/11 5
11 6/3/3/3/10 6.25
26 6/3/3/3/9 6.41
42 5/3/3/3/9 6.57
46 5/3/3/3/8 6.75
80 5/3/3/3/7 6.94


Strafe with ballista, which has the same standard attack speed as colossus crossbow:

0 11/6/6/6/17 3.28
2 10/6/6/6/17 3.33
6 10/6/6/6/16 3.37
11 9/5/5/5/15 3.9
22 9/5/5/5/14 3.96
27 9/4/5/5/14 4.03
32 8/5/5/5/13 4.09
50 8/4/4/4/11 4.9
70 7/4/4/4/11 5
95 7/3/4/4/11 5.1
105 7/3/4/4/10 5.2


My experience was that, not having fanaticism, the standard attack (guided arrow) and strafe with the ballista while doing a lot of damage, was very slow, and became a hazard using with strafe due to the long lock animation. One more problem that i experienced was that with the slow guided arrow, many times i hit enemies and they were left with 1-20% hit points after 1 shot, which is a waste of damage.

Another point with harmony is that it has a lot of elemental damage, which is mitigated by slow attack speed. So as regards to harmony, i did find ceremonial bow a better option.


But we are discussing faith here, which gives level 12-15 fanaticism, and is 100% physical damage-oriented. I use strafe with faith grand matron bow, along with razortail and atma's scarab, which i find to be stronger than multishot. It's fast too, so controlling the lock is no problem.


Gmb strafe ias tables with level 12 fanaticism:

0 5/3/3/3/9 6.57
3 5/3/3/3/8 6.75
20 5/3/3/3/7 6.94


Colossus strafe ias tables with level 12 fanaticism:

0 8/5/4/5/12 4.46
5 8/4/4/4/11 4.9
15 7/4/4/4/11 5
27 7/3/4/4/11 5.1
32 7/3/4/4/10 5.2

Level 15 fanaticism:

0 8/5/4/5/12 4.46
3 8/4/4/4/11 4.9
13 7/4/4/4/11 5
24 7/3/4/4/11 5.1
29 7/3/4/4/10 5.2


There is also something called nextdelay, i don't quite remember the frames they get activated at, i think it is the 5th frame. So firing at single targets may be detrimental with colossus, but i use guided arrow for that anyway, which i use for champions, boss monster packs and bosses. But, there is a definite cause here to at least test this out for someone that has the wealth and resources!


Colossus standard attack ias tables with level 12 fanaticism:

0 16 1.56
5 15 1.66
15 14 1.78
27 13 1.92
46 12 2.08
75 11 2.27


Gmb standard attack ias tables with level 12 fanaticism:

0 11 2.27
8 10 2.5
24 9 2.77
50 8 3.12
99 7 3.57


So with standard attack, guided arrow and multishot, i can see the difference, and i think the usefulness fades there. Realistically, one gets 20% ias from gloves, and any more than that is hard to get for a bowa if not focusing on it, which means switching fortitude for treachery usually, or very expensive helmet options like artisan's tiara of speed, performance or anything useful, which is hard enough to get, and then damage+ias jewels, which may give a potential 45% ias, but which are usually expensive and difficult to get, so they are exempt for most people.

Amulets are usually 0% too, because that spot should be reserved for atma's scarab.


So that leaves only 15 14 1.78 for colossus, and 8 10 2.5 for gmb. 0.72 more attacks every second in my book means 72% more damage, so obviously the 43% higher damage is i think mitigated by the loss of attack speed.

But, the strafe part is intriguing and you may have stumbled onto something worth investigating further.

Interesting analysis.

I've put in some numbers in https://d2.maxroll.gg/d2planner/ to check.

Testing gear:
Mavina Helm 40/15
Cats Eye
Fortitude
Laying of Hands
Rare ring/Ravenfrost
Razortail
Gore Rider


Damage output per second on Venom Lord in CS
Faith GMB:
Multishot: 5214
Strafe: 8171
Faith CXBow:
Multishot: 5309
Strafe: 9361

So in this case the CXBow is actually better. Keep in mind, no max damage charms. They will have a greater impact on GMB because of the faster attack speed.
When paying attention you notice that we do not hit the 7 frame breakpoint with faith GMB. We have 85% IAS and need 92% IAS. With 85% we have hit the fastest breakpoint for GMB Strafe, and for CXBow multishot and strafe.
Swapping Razortail with Nosferatu (10% IAS) allows us to reach the final breakpoint for GMB:

Damage output per second on Venom Lord in CS
Faith GMB:
Multishot: 5782
Strafe: 7969
Faith CXBow:
Multishot: 5217
Strafe: 8786

The extra breakpoint that can be reached makes GMB the superior choice for normal attacks (like Multishot). When not reaching that breakpoint CXBow is actually just as good in raw damage output for Multishot. But for Strafe it's quite a lot better.

edit:
I should point out that for a CXBow you need to pump a lot more Strength. Those are points that could be spent in Dexterity.
When you take out all those points and shove them into Dexterity (with Nosferatu):

Damage output per second on Venom Lord in CS
Faith GMB:
Multishot: 5984
Strafe: 8226

makes Multishot pull ever further ahead but still misses damage on Strafe, compared to the crossbow.

Personally I think that with max damage charms scaling better with GMB a GMB will be the better choice overall. It's already better for anything non-strafe, and the charms will make it pull more even with the crossbow.

This post was edited by Morbid-EW on Nov 7 2021 04:16am