Hello forum,

This ladder I'm trying a new necromancer build whose two main damage sources are poison and physical; and since my policy is to kill everything that comes my way, I need to plan some things very carefully, even foes which are both immune to physical and poison damage (night marauders in hell difficulty comes to mind).

Right now the character is level 34 in act 1 nightmare; he cheesed Diablo and Baal real good at the level "fromage qui pue" due to the fact that the merc (act 1 fire arrow) is equipped with Edge on a razor bow, which provides a level 15 Thorns aura. This and AD... Well, see the post I made earlier about this.

Anyway, current notable gear is:

* Jade Tan Do as a primary weapon (which comes with a very handy Cannot Be Frozen mod);
* String of Ears as a belt (13% DR and 11 magic damage reduction, life steal is really accessory here);
* Skin of the Vipermagi as an armor (a perfect one);
* Lore as a helmet;
* a rare amulet with +1 necro skills, +16 all res;
* secondary weapon: infernal torch, etheral shrunken head with +2 to Golem Mastery.

The mercenary's trump card (and one of this build's) is, as mentioned above, Edge (on a Blade Bow).

As to skills, at this moment:

* Curses: 2 into AD, 1 into Dim Vision, 1 into Lower Resist, along with all prerequisites (5), and that inclues 1 into Decrepify, for a total of 9 points;
* Summons: 3 into Clay Golem, 1 into Golem Mastery, Summon Resist and Revive, plus all prerequisites (4), for a total of 10 points;
* Poison and bone: 2 into CE, 2 into Poison Explosion (that was a mistake), 3 into Poison Nova, one prerequisite (Teeth), the rest into Poison Dagger (11) for a total of 19.

38 points total.

The current plan for attribute points, followed through so far: 1 str, 2 dex, 2 vit at each level. This is one area where I'm not quite sure where to go (ie, how much str do I really need, and after that, how to split dex/vit).

Going forward, things are a little hazy. I am sure that for the late game, AD/Thorns works wonderfully (I've already done it twice) but this time I want poison to be part of the mix.

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My experience currently:

* Poison Explosion has a major drawback: its very, very limited range. That's a pity since its damage is pretty decent (and its mana cost is constant), but for all intents and purposes it is impractical... I prefer to use a quick AD/CE, that is much more effective.
* Poison Nova on the other hand is very effective, moreso than I anticipated, I therefore plan to invest in it before Poison Explosion since both skills are an equivalent synergy to Poison Dagger which I plan to max out anyway.
* As to Poison Dagger itself, this is a must would it only be for its huge AR bonus.
* It is scarcely believable how effective the Thorns/AD combination is until you experience it for yourself -- really, try it.
* A single point into Revive is enough, since with the + to skills, there is already a small army to summon if necessary and if possible.
* The Act 1 merc is quite good at staying out of trouble most of the time, so Thorns is nearly always there for me to build upon.
* Even with 2 points invested into vitality at each level and good resistances, my life sometimes goes down really fast from a couple of hits, and that's only in Nightmare difficulty... And Hell awaits.
* Lower Resist does make a visible difference to poison damage at level 4 (1 point invested, 3 skill bonuses).

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Going forward, say, up to level 50:

* Still unsure what strength I should aim for; when I reach that unknown threshold, it is even more unsure how I should split between dex and vit, since I don't want to die and I want to hit... Poison Dagger does provide a very healthy AR bonus so there is that.
* I have in store, and plan to equip, Blackbog's Sharp: +4 to both Poison Explosion and Poison Nova, +5 to Poison Dagger, 30% IAS, other nice properties, and it's one of these far too rare uniques whose properties do not require you to thrive for perfection (which is overrated anyway).
* Reaching Act 2 Nightmare, I may go, but not immediately, for a Thorns merc equipped with Obedience as a weapon (I have the runes but don't have the base weapon yet), equipped with Duriel's Shell and Vampire Gaze (which I both have). Or Insight at first.
* I'll try my hand at Treachery, not only for its when struck proc, but also for its on hit proc: Venom and Poison Dagger are a deadly poison combination since the damage per frame of Venom is added to Poison Dagger. Plus, Treachery provides very healthy FRW and IAS bonuses.
* I want Homonculus, Trang Oul gloves and Ravenfrost :/
* Skills: apart from poison skills, I must see how much further I need to invest in the golem to make it survive that little extra which can help. No plan to invest further into revives, not even a point into skeleton mastery.

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50+ and planning for Hell:

* CtA... As to the shield, uh... Lidless Wall? I do have it, I also have a Splendor lying around.
* Armor: in order of preference, Bramble, Chains of Honor and Enigma. I only miss the Sur for Bramble.
* After that, max poison skills; what points are left will go... Where? No idea. Some in the golem, certainly.

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Anyway, that's the current roadmap. Subject to change as I experiment along the way, but I will certainly welcome constructive criticism and ideas!

My suggestion for a poison dagger type necro is to put a point into revive and then max skeleton mastery for unkillable meatshields. After that dump the rest into revive. It is expensive points wise but it only takes 60 to max out the poison skills.

You could do your thorns aura merc too if youre so inclined. Bramble armor would increase poison damage if youre not using enigma and would also make your revives deal back damage with thorns if youre into that.

Then as far as damage you could do strength kris for a good while and then try to upgrade to fleshripper or ghostflame for physical damage. If you decide to be more of a novamancer but you still want to stab stuff sometimes, wizardspike would be great.

Having enough dex for max block should provide plenty AR to hit things with poison dagger. Homunculus would be good here but a handful of shields would work. Iirc points into dex increase melee dagger damage so an extra couple of points into dex wouldnt be a huge waste. There is a build called "daggerzon" that uses the same idea.

I do have Fleshripper in stock and am wondering about using it... Anyway, two points to steer the discussion here:

* it is not so much as I am "so inclined" to use Thorns (with AD and CE); it is just that this combination is deadly. Believe me, if you have never tried it, give it a shot. This build ultimately WILL have a source for Thorns, whether on itself or the merc. It's just that good.
* Daggers in d2x do in fact have a damage bonus of 50 str/50 dex, although I'm not sure what that means: does it mean that 100 points in dex provide 50% ed and same for str? Not sure. Anyway, physical damage is not what I aim for, at least not the necro itself. I do intend to pump up dexterity for the chance to hit first and foremost and yes, I would soooo like Homonculus as a shield (right now I have Lidless Wall).

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Now, one point which should definitely be discussed is the interaction between Venom and Poison Dagger; when I first read about this I could scarcely believe my eyes but now that I have tested it I can confirm: this is true.

A very gross explanation: the amount of damage per second (that is, 25 frames) applied by Poison Dagger not only applies to Poison Dagger itself, but also to other sources of poison damage, calculated back at the frame level and then multiplied by the number of frames.

Let us take a simple, theoretical example:

* you have Poison Dagger dealing 200 poison damage over 2 seconds;
* you have another source of poison damage, whatever the source, dealing 50 poison damage over 1 second.

In order to calculate the total amount of poison damage dealt by poison dagger over its time, you first have to divide the two individual sources of damge down to 1 second then multiply by the number of seconds. In this case, 100 (200/2) + 50 (50/1) multiplied by 2: 300 poison damage.

Now, if your first source of poison is Poison Dagger at level 20 and the second one is Venom, say at level 15, you realize that your poison damage output is multiplied by a factor greater than 2...

This is downright insane. And this is why right now my body armor of choice is Treachery. This works wonderfully well so far but I'm only in Act 3 Nightmare... For safety and the future I do want Homonculus as a shield. Not only for the bonus to the skill trees but also the resistances...

Which brings me to the last point: I have set as an objective to reach 70 base strength, and at each level I put 1 str, 2 dex, 2 vit... But my total hit point is not even 400. That is going to be a real problem. How to boost my life pool and retain a decent chance to hit? Poison dagger provides a healthy bonus to AR but this can only bring you so far... Or maybe I value AR too much?

I always thought of Thorns being ultimately not viable. But never gave it a serious try with AD and all. Very, very interesting. I am planning a Big-Barbarian-Party, possibly this knowledge comes in handy. Thanks for sharing!

If you have enough for block you should have enough to hit. Thats the way the single pass d2 players do it and it works.

Fleshripper also has -target defense % so that helps a lot. You dont need 10k attack rating to hit things, 6k isnt amazing but it should be enough. Poison dagger is duration anyhow, even 70% chance to hit should be plenty.

If you dont have a demonlimb for enchant, a crude substitute would be obedience in something light but youd have to get a kill or those exceptional unique gloves with enchant on hit but youd then be gimping your poison damage.

As far as health pool even three to five revives will soak up a lot of damage. Might want to put one point into bone armor just to soak up one hit. 1 point attract is also a very powerful crowd control spell and it only overrides your curses on one monster instead of all of them.

I believe most weapons in d2 are 1 point strength equals 1% enhanced damage.
Hammers are 1.1% enhanced damage per point into strength.
Daggers are 0.75% ed per point in strength and dex.

Attack rating currently stands at 6.7k (poison dagger level 29) so I indeed do not have problems to hit for now (Act 5 Nightmare; only Baal to go). As to Demonlimb, I do have it, the problem it its heavy strength requirement. Even with a Hel in it, that is a tall order given that my current plan is to limit my base strength at 70. The gloves you are talking about are Lava Gout by the way.

Speaking of strength, I did reach 70... And right now all my points go into vitality. But that's not even 500 hp at level 57... This is really low. That and my resistances are really not great so I "reverted" to wearing vipermagi again. Well, at least, poison damage is quite high, especially with the bonuses provided by Blackbog's, which I am still currently using. For a distant future I may consider using Fleshripper (I have 2 of them) and... Dragon, which provides a level 18 venom proc when hit (20%, vs 25% level 15 on hit for Treachery).

Well, I don't see that I'll have any problems with Baal in nightmare, but hell awaits. Fortunately my merc has good gear (Duriel's Shell, Vampire Gaze and Edge, now on a blade bow).

You could use wizardspike for normal play and pull out the fleshripper for act bosses. Its not perfect by any stretch.

With dragon your venom dps would go from level 15 at 780ish to level 18 at 962, good extra chunk of damage.

First a mistake of mine: what I have in double is not _Flesh_ripper but _Spine_ripper. And I quite want Fleshripper now that I know what it does...

Second, I have started Act 1 hell and the good news is that I now have Homonculus. In fact I have been gifted it along with Death's Web (I am not yet at the level to wear that however). At this subject I have a question about poison damage which I have posted on this forum. Also, I don't quite take as much damage as I feared I would, plus I'm now at the level to wear that shako (yes, that shako _again_). And combining with Wizardspike looks actually reaaally nice thanks to the resistances.

As to Dragon vs Treachery I think I'm going to go with Treachery: after all I do thrive not to get hit and to hit targets while being "protected" by my meat shields, plus I hit quite fast, which means that the proc on Treachery is much more likely. One thing though is that I'm going to lose the inner poison damage of Blackbog and its +5 to poison dagger (along with +4 to explosion and nova). All this is of course before I get to make Bramble, and on this day I am still unsure what the merc will be and what his (her?) weapon will be...

For my poison dagger/revive necro playthrough I ended up using a strength kris for act bosses. Super cheap, knocks them down reasonably fast until you can find fleshripper.

As far as mercs if you go act 2 merc you could roll with insight/prayer combo when you get bramble since a good chunk of your damage is returned damage, it wouldnt make sense to go with something that makes enemies hit less like defiance or holy freeze.

Might could be alright if you find that fleshripper does decent physical damage, or blessed aim to beef up attack rating for dagger. If you get enough summons, might would probably be the way to go.

I haven't even thought of Strength *sigh* but it's indeed a very tempting rune word and easy to make for sure. In fact I think I may go for that as a _secondary_ weapon along with Sanctuary as a shield... I'd go for Homonculus and Death's Web as main, then switch to "go personal".

My AR is currently 8.7k but that's with Blackbog and its +5 to poison dagger; hitting is no problem but I'm only in Act 1 Hell. Things will probably change later on... I'll try and see what percentage I have to hit Andariel. Oh, and I do have 75% chances to block, so your rule of thumb that there is no problem to hit if you can block is a good one That's with Homonculus though, and this shield has a pretty high chance to block to start with. It saved me more times than I care to admit :/

As to the act 2 merc, I'll have to see whether I can maintain a decent hit rate; if so then Might it will certainly be.

Thanks for the tips!